I loved the Ad. Were you a football coach? I probably would have loved to play for you. Best wishes for your team. I think it would be a terrific opportunity for the person you described you want, especially him being totally honest and you willing to work with him. Being married was not mentioned, but I expect in the AP world it has its drawbacks.
Maybe it's too much detail, so don't get mad and angry for me asking these questions..... but could you go into a bit more depth on hourly salaries? Would it be a % of win for a given session? A % of +EV for a session? What about hourly rates, like $8/hour? I'm also assuming that the spotter would have to pay for his own transportation. What about rooms? Is that paid by the bankroll or by the spotter? Or maybe partial reimbursement? You said no strip clubs / bars / etc. Would it be permitted if the spotter did this on his own time, assuming it doesn't interfere with playing (staying up too late, hungover, etc.) ? Would 1-drink-per-hour be permitted, or not drinking at all while playing? Is there a drug test or is it as long as you aren't "dependent" on drugs/alcohol? How many days is a typical trip? How many sessions or hours per session, per day? IDK what is or isn't too much info to post, so I'm sure some of these questions can be answered while others can't be.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
Originally Posted by RollingStoned
1. I'm leaning strongly towards an equity position for spotters. If someone really needed the money and couldn't stomach the risk, it would probably be something like $8/hr for spotters.
2. I do not expect players to pick up travel expenses, so long as they are reasonable. For example, I'd give you gas money, but not a $600 plane ticket for only 10 hours of play.
3. Rooms will be covered by comps if at all possible, otherwise the team will pay for them. Same with food.
4. No drinking while playing. I don't care if you have a beer at the end of the day, or a glass of wine at the steakhouse, but I don't want to work with people who get intoxicated if they may be carrying around money, or could out me by doing something stupid. No alcohol dependency.
5. Expect 8 to 10 hours days, depending on what we can get away with. Most people can't count longer than this.
The Cash Cow.
USA, most likely. A team of straight counters has few (but not zero) opportunities elsewhere.
"Wait a minute. How do you beat someone to death with their own skull? That doesn't seem physically possible." "That's what Jimmy kept screaming: 'This doesn't seem physically possible!'"
Just a comment from someone with a law license. Lying to u is not fraud. Lying will not result in criminal charges, and no judge is going to award you civil penalties. You said urself that you won't be letting anyone touch ur money, so their is no pecuniary harm. I'm not mentioning this to give any 'spy' a heads up. I'm mentioning it so u are aware. For example, hookers think cops cant lie about being cops cuz that would be entrapment. Not true, I tell the hookers.I will consider using some players here as spotters. Contact me by PM. Here are my rules:
1. You need to be an established player. If you came to a Bash, that's good enough for me. Otherwise, I'll need recommendations. If you don't know anyone on the site, I may consider it, but be prepared for paranoia. If you're a casino spy, don't bother trying, and I will consider your attempt to contact me to be fraud. I will press criminal charges against you and initiate civil fraud proceedings against you and your employer. If you think I'm some internet hero, try to defraud your way onto my team and see what happens.
2. I do not f%& around. If you can't count down 6 deck shoes consistently on your kitchen table, don't waste both of our time. You will embarrass yourself, and cost yourself travel expenses, and if anyone on the site asks if they should work with you, I will have to say no. If you're still training, that's fine, just say so. I MAY help train a player who is learning. But don't swear to me that you can count if you can't.
3. You will not touch my money, probably for a long time. When you do, it will be small amounts at first, until you prove yourself at the red chip level. You'll be working exclusively as a spotter until I know I can trust your count, your work ethic, and your morality. If you are a liar or you plan to scam me, see item #1: I will have you prosecuted if you steal from me. I will also have your name, picture, and other info which I will post on every forum and report to every contact I have.
4. You must pass a background check. Don't bother me if you won't pass.
5. No drugs, no alcohol dependency.
6. This is a business, not a pleasure cruise. That means, we won't be going to strip clubs, we won't waste ANY of our investors' money, and if you are not playing properly, I will not tolerate it. You will be counting down shoes waiting for good counts most of the time. It will be boring. You MAY get to stay in nice hotel rooms, and we MAY get a comp to the steakhouse, but these will be occasional. Our job is to get the money. If you like to "half-ass" with the count, don't bother contacting me. If you're serious about making money, however, you will learn everything you need to know and more.
7. My "checkout" test before I will work with you is as follows:
a. You count down multiple 6 and 8 deck shoes without errors. This will include distractions. You must use hi-lo. If you use another system, and you want to play with me, you'll need to learn hi-lo. Your lips had better not move, either.
b. You know basic strategy cold. Don't bother me if you don't know how to play A4 vs 4.
c. If you don't know index plays, I will teach you. That isn't as important to me initially.
d. Deck estimation is also not as important initially. I will teach you this if you can't do it.
8. You'll need to be in the midwest, or a major gambling destination, or be willing to travel. I'm fine working with college students on breaks. If you live somewhere else and want to travel to meet us, you'll still need to come to me for checkouts.
9. If you're willing to invest, that helps me know that you are serious.
10. If you want an hourly rate, it will be LOW to start off, until I know you're serious. If you want an equity position, it will be higher than an hourly rate. It will also increase with time, as you become more valuable to the team. Once I trust you as a big player, you'll be paid quite well.
11. Established play with a player's card where you can get comps (particularly hotel rooms) will help. Burning out tons of casinos playing rated will not help. The El Cortez does not count
So, if you want to play on my team, send me a PM. You can ask questions on here as well, but don't reveal any personal information.
Glad you have a law license, and I'm glad you have a legal opinion. In some jurisdictions, with some fact patterns, you may be correct. However, I can assure you, that any attempt by a casino employee or consultant to defraud their way onto my team WILL result in criminal charges, AND a civil lawsuit. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. I will not explain why it is a fact, but I will assure you that it is a fact, it is not merely internet posturing.
And no, I will not go into any sort of detail whatsoever.
The Cash Cow.
Moo, have you recruited in this manner, from internet forums before? I am quite sure you know what you are doing, but it does seem a little odd to me in the sense some players who think a little better of themselves than they should, could be wasting your time. I would think with your connections, a better route would be friends and acquaintances of people you currently work with, have worked with in the past or have networked with and have a good feel for their credibility. No?
I already am working with people from my network. However, some plays require more manpower, or more of certain types of manpower, than others. And some in some plays, extra manpower has a multiplicative, rather than an additive effect.
The Cash Cow.
You seem to be pretty set on this. But a last tidbit on this. You need to prove you justifiably relied on a misrepresentation that caused injury to prove fraud. Your posted definition of fraud is the following: "being a casino spy and contacting me". That is an unreasonable definition, and does not illegalize information gathering. Also, a casino or its staff is not going to expose itself to legal liability very easily. So to sue, you need to show u suffered a loss. What would your loss be, that u can't gamble in the casino that the 'spy' works for? Pretty speculative. To prosecute, not only do you need an injury, you need a prosecutor who wants to prosecute the alleged crime. Do you really think a prosecutor would care about the angry card counter? I really dont think you can go into details cuz there arent any to go into. Perhaps you think getting onto your team via 'fraud' is akin to corporate espionage; but that is grandiose and ludicrous, and would be laughed out of court. Just a guess. But think what u like, dont care...just be aware. That was my entire point the first time anyway. If i was a 'spy', i certainly wouldn't be worried about your rule #1. Good luck to u in assembling a team, I doubt a 'spy' will be an issue anyway.
Last edited by Boz; 01-27-2013 at 04:56 PM.
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