Settling the "Which count?" arguments

[moo321]

There are legitimate arguments about which counts are better. And each have benefits and drawbacks. I am not attempting to settle, but only narrow the debate, for the sake of new players. Specifically, only the following counts should ever be recommended, and all other counts should not be recommended:

1. Hi Lo
2. Zen
3. Unbalanced Zen
4. RPC/FELT
5. Hi Opt II (but only if you play a decent amount of pitch, and you're side-counting the aces)
6. KO/REKO
7. Red Seven

For ease of use:
KO, REKO, Red Seven

For team play, shuffle tracking, wealth of published information, simplicity, and ease of use:
Hi-Lo

For a count that will outperform when playing a mix of pitch and shoe:
Zen, Unbalanced Zen

For a system where the ace is side-counted:
Hi Opt II

For the absolute best shoe game count:
RPC/FELT

[Freightman]

Seems to me this issue has been kicked to death. Besides, where's halves?

[moo321]

Am I missing any? I believe each of these is the best for their level of complexity/desired result. So, Hi-Opt II is the best system with an ace-side-count. Zen and UBZ are the best hybrid level 2 systems. RPC is the best level 2 shoe system. KO, REKO, and Red 7 are the best simple counts. And Hi-Lo is widely used by teams, good for tracking, simple to use, and has the most information published.

This is not to say other systems are not good. But that these are the best, all things equal. So, AOII is a very strong system, but Hi Opt II is just slightly better for the same complexity. Halves is good, but RPC is just as good and simpler.

[moo321]

Seems to me this issue has been kicked to death. Besides, where's halves?

1. That's the point. We can at least partially settle it by narrowing the field.

2. RPC is just as good and simpler.

[Three]

Well I think HIOPT2/ace side beats all other counts in every game available. I find it a bit amazing that all these people that regard themselves as great counters are so intimidated by an ace side count.

I guess he eliminated all level 3 counts so halves went with them.

Well good effort moo. I hope those that are not sure what count to use find it useful. Those that have picked their weapon of choice will either be happy with their results or keep *****ing that their system has too many, too severe and too long of negative swings.

[moo321]

Tthree, so you would agree that Hi Opt 2 is the absolute best, assuming one is willing to use at least a level 2, ace-side-counted system?

[bigplayer]

Best bang for the buck, IMHO, is Zen which enables you to use AO2 as a companion count if you so choose when playing pitch games. For the modern game, however, you really don't need anything other than Hi-Lo.

[Freightman]

1. That's the point. We can at least partially settle it by narrowing the field.

2. RPC is just as good and simpler.

One of the real beauties of halves, besides it's great BC, is that the index numbers almost completely mirror the hi Lo index numbers, and thus make the transition to a higher level halves count so much easier than others.

[Three]

Tthree, so you would agree that Hi Opt 2 is the absolute best, assuming one is willing to use at least a level 2, ace-side-counted system?

Hiopt2/ASC is the best of available counts. There are custom counts that are not available to the public but what is the point of talking about them in this situation.

[21forme]

Seems to me this issue has been kicked to death.

Beyond death.

[Yopp-Secret 572]

Hiopt2/ASC is the best of available counts. There are custom counts that are not available to the public but what is the point of talking about them in this situation.

Talk about 'em TALK ABOUT 'EM!!!! There is a very valid point to talk about 'em!!! Looks like the public is going to have to piece them together bit by bit to ever learn them. So I will Just come out and ask, IF someone were interested in learning the system used and developed by Tarzan, How would one go about this? Assume this interested person(s) would have unlimited time to devote to the system.

[Freightman]

Beyond death.

Perhaps I will be experience reincarnation, returning to Earth as a Hi Opt 2 system.

[Three]

Just come out and ask, IF someone were interested in learning the system used and developed by Tarzan, How would one go about this? Assume this interested person(s) would have unlimited time to devote to the system.

Well there is one person that can teach you that. He is writing a book on it. Your mentor is good friends with him. Odds are you may meet the jungle man some day if you do more than just correspond. That said it is really an advanced counting approach beyond what most people will take the time to do. One student picked it up in days. Most never mastered it before they gave up trying. I wouldn't worry about it until you have mastered HIOPT2/ASC or give up trying. If you gave up don't worry about Tarzan count.