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    Do you agree...


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    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    I used to be a member of a magicians organization and have tried to pick up on any sort of "improper" dealing, etc. Now maybe I'm not looking for the right thing, but I haven't seen anything improper.

    I'm not saying it doesn't happen but that I haven' been able to pick up anything.
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  3. #3


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    The article makes many good points that should be considered in the overall scope of concerns about casinos. The risk is that we use such data to base an assumption that they all cheat and therefore, in a backhanded way, justify our cheating. I draw the line at that point. Cheating is cheating and can not be validated by another's bad acts.

    I do subscribe to the reality of blatant prejudice by gaming officers in direct favor of the casinos. I have personal experience with this at least at the level of 3 gaming officers. Are they all like that, don't know but the system does have a clear bias to favor the casinos built in and as should always be done, "Follow the Money"! The appearance of impropriety is as bad as the impropriety itself and taints all decisions.

    So, words of caution are very appropriate but not to be used to justify your own bad behavior.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  4. #4


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    Casinos (not all, or maybe even just few) absolutely 100000% cheat. I don't know how often in Blackjack, I assume not much. But with machine play, promotions, drawings, etc. they absolutely cheat.

    Someone I was taking action on in a drawing got picked first, drawing clearly stated first person picked gets top prize. He got bottom prize. Same thing at a sister property....where a random ploppy got picked first and got top prize, even though that one stated it was the other way around (first picked gets bottom prize, last picked gets top prize).

    Got screwed on some money on a promotion. After playing for many hours, was told the game I'd been playing was no longer eligible and my last 1 hour of play wouldn't be counted (but everything before that was, due to a delay in how the promotion ran. I checked the day before and day of promo, where they said all machines were eligible.

    How many people got screwed at the revel?

    Destroyed one casino that was giving out lots of FP every day based on previous play (part of a promo). Then they tried shutting down my card because I wasn't giving them additional action. Only good game to pick up FP was at the bar....bartender who "ratted" on me started making $0/day in tips instead of $10/day. Casino also tried to disqualify the game I played in the promo from being eligible, which is illegal the way the promo was set up. Luckily I didn't have much more play to go through to be eligible for the promo, so I finished on an inferior game. Then they took that game out, but hey, I was already done!

    Gotten free play shut off after playing a loss rebate. Another casino making it extremely difficult to collect on a promo (going from no limit in FP per day to like $100, then shutting off pin every day, then having to go back to boothlings to get it fixed and manager would take his sweet ass time (2 hours) to unlock the card)......at least gaming sided with us on that one.


    Unfortunately, gaming can be extremely difficult to deal with. They don't know what is even going on. For instance, they have a royal promotion where if you hit 2 in one week you get paid double or something. You do it, get no paid, call gaming. And gaming is like "well what's the problem? it's just a promotion and extra money, it's not like they cheated you out of money you actually won. You hit two $1 royals and they paid you $4k each." They figure you woulda been playing anyway.

    Or another case is something where the casino changes a promotion halfway through (illegally, the way the promo is set up). Perhaps if you hit 2 royals in a week you get $500 bonus. 3 royals you get $1000 bonus. 4 royals you get $2k bonus. And 5 royals gets you $25k bonus. Once you get to the 4'th royal, casino says the game you're playing is no longer eligible. Of course, gaming being most likely retarded, say "casino can change the promo whenever they want!" Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if gaming said the player had to refund the $3500 bonus since the promo has been changed.



    And I think we've all been in a situation where a supervisor illegally backed up a card (or tried to) or do something else that's against the gaming regulations. Hell, one floor person I used to work with said, "casinos are private businesses. We don't even have to cash out player's chips if we don't want to."


    Part of it is uneducation. Part is ignorance. But it all comes down to greed, which causes uneducation and ignorance in the casino/management.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

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    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    Casinos (not all, or maybe even just few) absolutely 100000% cheat. I don't know how often in Blackjack, I assume not much. But with machine play, promotions, drawings, etc. they absolutely cheat.

    Someone I was taking action on in a drawing got picked first, drawing clearly stated first person picked gets top prize. He got bottom prize. Same thing at a sister property....where a random ploppy got picked first and got top prize, even though that one stated it was the other way around (first picked gets bottom prize, last picked gets top prize).

    Got screwed on some money on a promotion. After playing for many hours, was told the game I'd been playing was no longer eligible and my last 1 hour of play wouldn't be counted (but everything before that was, due to a delay in how the promotion ran. I checked the day before and day of promo, where they said all machines were eligible.

    How many people got screwed at the revel?

    Destroyed one casino that was giving out lots of FP every day based on previous play (part of a promo). Then they tried shutting down my card because I wasn't giving them additional action. Only good game to pick up FP was at the bar....bartender who "ratted" on me started making $0/day in tips instead of $10/day. Casino also tried to disqualify the game I played in the promo from being eligible, which is illegal the way the promo was set up. Luckily I didn't have much more play to go through to be eligible for the promo, so I finished on an inferior game. Then they took that game out, but hey, I was already done!

    Gotten free play shut off after playing a loss rebate. Another casino making it extremely difficult to collect on a promo (going from no limit in FP per day to like $100, then shutting off pin every day, then having to go back to boothlings to get it fixed and manager would take his sweet ass time (2 hours) to unlock the card)......at least gaming sided with us on that one.


    Unfortunately, gaming can be extremely difficult to deal with. They don't know what is even going on. For instance, they have a royal promotion where if you hit 2 in one week you get paid double or something. You do it, get no paid, call gaming. And gaming is like "well what's the problem? it's just a promotion and extra money, it's not like they cheated you out of money you actually won. You hit two $1 royals and they paid you $4k each." They figure you woulda been playing anyway.

    Or another case is something where the casino changes a promotion halfway through (illegally, the way the promo is set up). Perhaps if you hit 2 royals in a week you get $500 bonus. 3 royals you get $1000 bonus. 4 royals you get $2k bonus. And 5 royals gets you $25k bonus. Once you get to the 4'th royal, casino says the game you're playing is no longer eligible. Of course, gaming being most likely retarded, say "casino can change the promo whenever they want!" Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if gaming said the player had to refund the $3500 bonus since the promo has been changed.



    And I think we've all been in a situation where a supervisor illegally backed up a card (or tried to) or do something else that's against the gaming regulations. Hell, one floor person I used to work with said, "casinos are private businesses. We don't even have to cash out player's chips if we don't want to."


    Part of it is uneducation. Part is ignorance. But it all comes down to greed, which causes uneducation and ignorance in the casino/management.

    NEWS FLASH!!
    Casinos are in business to extract money from our wallets, not to fill our wallets.

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    NEWS FLASH!!
    Casinos are in business to extract money from our wallets, not to fill our wallets.
    But if they are changing promos half way through, and not fulfilling promotions correctly, that's not right.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    NEWS FLASH!!
    Casinos are in business to extract money from our wallets, not to fill our wallets.
    Thanks captain obvious.
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  8. #8
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    Thanks captain obvious.
    You're kidding me!!??1111????!!?
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    But if they are changing promos half way through, and not fulfilling promotions correctly, that's not right.
    I cannot believe the greed! Wow!
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  10. #10
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    Part of it is uneducation. Part is ignorance. But it all comes down to greed, which causes uneducation and ignorance in the casino/management.
    That's it.
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Joe Mama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJer View Post
    I cannot believe the greed! Wow!
    Same as some greedy players who burn through juicy opportunities and make them disappear. In some ways greed is what makes free enterprise work.

  12. #12
    Senior Member BigJer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    Same as some greedy players who burn through juicy opportunities and make them disappear. In some ways greed is what makes free enterprise work.
    True. But in the second part it only works to a point. Anyways..........
    My Ability in Blackjack is a Gift from God!!

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by RollingStoned View Post
    Casinos (not all, or maybe even just few) absolutely 100000% cheat. I don't know how often in Blackjack, I assume not much. But with machine play, promotions, drawings, etc. they absolutely cheat.

    Someone I was taking action on in a drawing got picked first, drawing clearly stated first person picked gets top prize. He got bottom prize. Same thing at a sister property....where a random ploppy got picked first and got top prize, even though that one stated it was the other way around (first picked gets bottom prize, last picked gets top prize).

    Got screwed on some money on a promotion. After playing for many hours, was told the game I'd been playing was no longer eligible and my last 1 hour of play wouldn't be counted (but everything before that was, due to a delay in how the promotion ran. I checked the day before and day of promo, where they said all machines were eligible.

    How many people got screwed at the revel?

    Destroyed one casino that was giving out lots of FP every day based on previous play (part of a promo). Then they tried shutting down my card because I wasn't giving them additional action. Only good game to pick up FP was at the bar....bartender who "ratted" on me started making $0/day in tips instead of $10/day. Casino also tried to disqualify the game I played in the promo from being eligible, which is illegal the way the promo was set up. Luckily I didn't have much more play to go through to be eligible for the promo, so I finished on an inferior game. Then they took that game out, but hey, I was already done!

    Gotten free play shut off after playing a loss rebate. Another casino making it extremely difficult to collect on a promo (going from no limit in FP per day to like $100, then shutting off pin every day, then having to go back to boothlings to get it fixed and manager would take his sweet ass time (2 hours) to unlock the card)......at least gaming sided with us on that one.


    Unfortunately, gaming can be extremely difficult to deal with. They don't know what is even going on. For instance, they have a royal promotion where if you hit 2 in one week you get paid double or something. You do it, get no paid, call gaming. And gaming is like "well what's the problem? it's just a promotion and extra money, it's not like they cheated you out of money you actually won. You hit two $1 royals and they paid you $4k each." They figure you woulda been playing anyway.

    Or another case is something where the casino changes a promotion halfway through (illegally, the way the promo is set up). Perhaps if you hit 2 royals in a week you get $500 bonus. 3 royals you get $1000 bonus. 4 royals you get $2k bonus. And 5 royals gets you $25k bonus. Once you get to the 4'th royal, casino says the game you're playing is no longer eligible. Of course, gaming being most likely retarded, say "casino can change the promo whenever they want!" Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if gaming said the player had to refund the $3500 bonus since the promo has been changed.



    And I think we've all been in a situation where a supervisor illegally backed up a card (or tried to) or do something else that's against the gaming regulations. Hell, one floor person I used to work with said, "casinos are private businesses. We don't even have to cash out player's chips if we don't want to."


    Part of it is uneducation. Part is ignorance. But it all comes down to greed, which causes uneducation and ignorance in the casino/management.
    Unfortunately in most jurisdictions, it isn't illegal to back a card up.

    Also, it isn't illegal to change a promotion, when the promotion very specifically says in the fine print that the casino has the right to change the rules and regulations of the promotion at any time, for any reason, and without notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueman View Post
    But if they are changing promos half way through, and not fulfilling promotions correctly, that's not right.
    Its not right, but it isn't illegal, either.

    Its only illegal if they continue to advertise the promotion, unchanged, without the backing of the "subject to change yada yada" script behind it.

    Quote Originally Posted by moses View Post
    I'm thankful for the opportunity to compete. Give me a fair game and I will play for a fair profit.
    Moses.......the saint?

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