Trip and Session Rolls

[ZeeBabar]

I have great admiration for you guys. Also, I am reminded about how far I have to go before I can mentally handle such loses. I have a hard time handling a 5 day trip when, at the first casino, I have sat through a couple of hours of ups and downs and neutral counts too and then the first monster shoe comes, TC goes high, you put your max bet out, dealer gets a BJ, TC still high or higher, another max bet out, the ploppy gets a BJ, you get a 13 against an 8, hit and get a 9, bust. You lose two more max bets, get a push on one and lose that one too. Now, you have lost 4 max bets, another round left and you have only half a max bet left. The psychological effect is devastating. Do you take even more money out, just bet what is left in front of you (you lose it, you are glad you did not cash for a bigger bet, you win, you curse yourself for not having bet more). Even if I had won the bet, I still would not have recovered much of the earlier losses in that shoe.

for me, these decisions have to be made by a great understanding of yourself. I don't want to have booked rooms and airline flight across country for a 5 day trip and find myself devastated within hours of landing. I play with greater freedom at the end of the trip and more circumspect at the beginning. Yes, I have walked away from positive counts because I did not have a large session bankroll (who can predict I would have one that shoe?) but the bigger picture, the joy of the whole trip, cannot be recklessly risked.

[Stealth]

I have great admiration for you guys. Also, I am reminded about how far I have to go before I can mentally handle such loses. I have a hard time handling a 5 day trip when, at the first casino, I have sat through a couple of hours of ups and downs and neutral counts too and then the first monster shoe comes, TC goes high, you put your max bet out, dealer gets a BJ, TC still high or higher, another max bet out, the ploppy gets a BJ, you get a 13 against an 8, hit and get a 9, bust. You lose two more max bets, get a push on one and lose that one too. Now, you have lost 4 max bets, another round left and you have only half a max bet left. The psychological effect is devastating. Do you take even more money out, just bet what is left in front of you (you lose it, you are glad you did not cash for a bigger bet, you win, you curse yourself for not having bet more). Even if I had won the bet, I still would not have recovered much of the earlier losses in that shoe.

for me, these decisions have to be made by a great understanding of yourself. I don't want to have booked rooms and airline flight across country for a 5 day trip and find myself devastated within hours of landing. I play with greater freedom at the end of the trip and more circumspect at the beginning. Yes, I have walked away from positive counts because I did not have a large session bankroll (who can predict I would have one that shoe?) but the bigger picture, the joy of the whole trip, cannot be recklessly risked.

Zee, this sure sounds like "timing the market" which is a high risk undertaking. It is consistency in execution, you are narrowing when you should play correctly down to when your psyche might be able to handle it. IMHO you are adding immense additional pressure and risk to your game. Playing not to lose is a losing way to play. You must play with abandon while in the comfort of your pre-designed bet structures and bankroll. Session boundaries are irrelevant. Daily boundaries are irrelevant. Trip boundaries are irrelevant. Progress toward the long term is highly relevant. Plan for, and a tolerance of, variance is an absolute requirement.

All of this is meaningless if you are controlled and driven by forces outside of the game.

[Three]

The worst I had was a long time ago when I had a much smaller BR. I bought 12K for my trip BR. The first shoe I played that trip the count shot through the roof out of the gate. I played the entire shoe heads up. I did okay in that I won a bunch of bets but I had 3 times I split to 4 hands with doubles at max bet (2x200 at the time) which saw all bets swept away by the dealer. That was almost $6K lost on those 3 rounds alone. To make a long story short I lost almost $9K of my $12K trip BR during that first shoe of the trip. Luckily things didn't continue to go bad after taking a short break to gather myself and consider how to go forward with so little left. I ended up showing a profit for the trip but I always carried a lot more ($20K+) for a trip BR after that. Most of the time $12K would be a fine trip BR but you must prepare for a horrible start. You really want $12K left after getting crushed out of the gate.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" the joy ... cannot be recklessly risked."

Your posts of this sort are rather intriguing. I recognize how your
"stream of consciousness" style reveals your "mind-set" - that of
an addicted gambler. I fully understand this, as I can EMPATHIZE
with you. I certainly was a pathological gambler up until age 40.
I experienced all of the emotional reactions you reference and then
some. Long ago I turned Pro and initially struggled with emotions.
In time, I divorced myself from emotional reactions so that I could
win or lose 5 or 10 K and there'd be NO celebration, NO whining.
ONLY after succeeding in this transition, [perhaps 6 to 9 months]
was I able to handle "life on the road" without 'earned income' etc.
Irrespective of monetary issues, insecurity, social issues, the
(little understood) issues within the emotional spectrum; living an
"outlaw" existence truly on the "fringes of society" is for very few
individuals ~ please excuse the extreme understatement.
"Many are called. Few are chosen."

Over 40 yrs. ago I was to do a doctoral dissertation on a related issue
with Igor Kusyszyn, Ph.D. chairing my dissertation committee. If you
do not recognize the name, you might be familiar with "Lance Humble."

[Freightman]

Your posts of this sort are rather intriguing. I recognize how your
"stream of consciousness" style reveals your "mind-set" - that of
an addicted gambler. I fully understand this, as I can EMPATHIZE
with you. I certainly was a pathological gambler up until age 40.
I experienced all of the emotional reactions you reference and then
some. Long ago I turned Pro and initially struggled with emotions.
In time, I divorced myself from emotional reactions so that I could
win or lose 5 or 10 K and there'd be NO celebration, NO whining.
ONLY after succeeding in this transition, [perhaps 6 to 9 months]
was I able to handle "life on the road" without 'earned income' etc.
Irrespective of monetary issues, insecurity, social issues, the
(little understood) issues within the emotional spectrum; living an
"outlaw" existence truly on the "fringes of society" is for very few
individuals ~ please excuse the extreme understatement.
"Many are called. Few are chosen."

Over 40 yrs. ago I was to do a doctoral dissertation on a related issue
with Igor Kusyszyn, Ph.D. chairing my dissertation committee. If you
do not recognize the name, you might be familiar with "Lance Humble."

Interesting point on showing no emotion. I recall a cashier at Orleans who said she could tell by a oersons manner, wheather they had won or lost, but couldn't tell what I did. I made it a point thereafter to put on my losing face in places where not known.

[ZeeBabar]

Your posts of this sort are rather intriguing. I recognize how your
"stream of consciousness" style reveals your "mind-set" - that of
an addicted gambler. I fully understand this, as I can EMPATHIZE
with you. I certainly was a pathological gambler up until age 40.
I experienced all of the emotional reactions you reference and then
some. Long ago I turned Pro and initially struggled with emotions.
In time, I divorced myself from emotional reactions so that I could
win or lose 5 or 10 K and there'd be NO celebration, NO whining.
ONLY after succeeding in this transition, [perhaps 6 to 9 months]
was I able to handle "life on the road" without 'earned income' etc.
Irrespective of monetary issues, insecurity, social issues, the
(little understood) issues within the emotional spectrum; living an
"outlaw" existence truly on the "fringes of society" is for very few
individuals ~ please excuse the extreme understatement.
"Many are called. Few are chosen."

Over 40 yrs. ago I was to do a doctoral dissertation on a related issue
with Igor Kusyszyn, Ph.D. chairing my dissertation committee. If you
do not recognize the name, you might be familiar with "Lance Humble."

r

ZenMaster, please don't be too harsh. All of you are heroes and models for me and I am slowly getting there. Once upon a time, I was uncomfortable at the nickel tables with a max bet of $60. By nature, a frugal guy who paid his way through college while waiting tables and working the night shift as a nurse's aide, it's difficult for me to be extravagant. Most people called me cheap.

I have slowly upped my bets but getting money out is tough. Just returned from a DD game where I had a $200 bet out on the last round of a DD game. TC+5 to start, Dealer has 10 up, only other player gets a BJ, I have 9,2. I doubled for less ($100), get a 9 (total 20), dealer turns up a 7. I won but I had choked at doubling for the full amount.

Still learning. Biggest struggles is doubling against a 10, splitting 8's against a 10 or splitting 6's against a 2 in positive counts etc., when Ai have a $100 or more out.

[Three]

Zee, often I have my max bet out and split to 4 hands with doubles on one spot and have more than one max bet on the other due to doubles and/or splits. I don't hesitate and hope for the best with 8-10 max bets out on one round. If I go on a trip it usually happens 1 to 4 times on the trip. These rounds can make or break your trip but they are a big chunk of your EV even if you lose all the bets. In the long run you will hit EV and have lots of wins and losses that make up the road to the long run. Don't sweat when the losses show up. It is part of the ride. By altering play you make the ride longer and tougher to a lesser long run win.

[BJGenius007]

I'm leaving on a 3-4 day trip this afternoon. I'll be carrying 25k. There will be 2500 in my wallet, 2500, elasticized in a shirt button down pocket. If it appears that I'll need more, I'll discreetly go to the John, pull out a 5 pack, splitting the funds as previously described.

I also don't like to be seen as having endless funds. Some trips, I need to go in for funds, other trips, I never have to go in further than the initial buy in.

I never bring so much cash personally. I bring checks and cash checks in casino cashier where I stay (in LV). Note that I only play shoe games at the casino I stay and spread modestly like five to one to earn comp so I can stay free. One hour daily spread $100 to $500 should do it.