surrender and get 80% of your bet back

[Meistro123]

let's say you can surrender any pair that is a 'basic strategy split' for 80% of your bet. bet $100 get back $80. basic strategy is oddly defined in this case.


so basic strategy 80% surrenders are 66 v 2, 33 v 8, 77 v 8 and 88 v 9 & T (no surrender vs A). all other candidate hands have a higher than -.2 ev for hitting or splitting. aside from 33 v 8 and 77 v 8 (which are not basic strategy splits) all other potential 80% surrenders are only actual basic strategy splits.

as per the wiz's ev tables

http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/1/

the expected loss for splitting 33 v 8 is
-.231843
the expected loss for hitting 33 v 8 is -.217242

How are these values going to change as the count gets higher? Will either increase to less than -.2 at higher counts?

Rule set is S17, DAS, DA2, ES10 as well as the rule I have been discussing. No hole card game but OBO.


Ev for splitting 66 v 2 is -.212560

How will this change as the count increases? Will it ever go higher than -.2 and when?

[seriousplayer]

let's say you can surrender any pair that is a 'basic strategy split' for 80% of your bet. bet $100 get back $80. basic strategy is oddly defined in this case.


so basic strategy 80% surrenders are 66 v 2, 33 v 8, 77 v 8 and 88 v 9 & T (no surrender vs A). all other candidate hands have a higher than -.2 ev for hitting or splitting. aside from 33 v 8 and 77 v 8 (which are not basic strategy splits) all other potential 80% surrenders are only actual basic strategy splits.

as per the wiz's ev tables

http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/1/

the expected loss for splitting 33 v 8 is
-.231843
the expected loss for hitting 33 v 8 is -.217242

How are these values going to change as the count gets higher? Will either increase to less than -.2 at higher counts?

Rule set is S17, DAS, DA2, ES10 as well as the rule I have been discussing. No hole card game but OBO.


Ev for splitting 66 v 2 is -.212560

How will this change as the count increases? Will it ever go higher than -.2 and when?

In your case for surrendering you need a lose of 60 and a win of 40 to make a surrendering a wise decision. The EV table that you posted is for a different rule set. Rule S17, Infinite decks, double after split, split up to three times except for Aces. You need the expected value for the rule set that you listed. You didn't mention how many decks. So I going to post the EV table for six decks.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackj.../euro-6ds17r4/

[Meistro123]

No, this is an OBO game not a ENHC game.

[Tarzan]

let's say you can surrender any pair that is a 'basic strategy split' for 80% of your bet.

Let's say you can... can you? Is this hypothetical?

[hitthat16]

I'm with Tarzan. Where on this planet is this kind of rule offered? It has to be hypothetical.

[Meistro123]

No it's an actual rule at an actual casino.

[RS]

Why does it even matter if it's hypothetical or not? Plenty of scenarios I can think of, where people would say, "nope that'd never happen", where the way you're obtaining your advantage is broken down into a more simple problem or question. Oftentimes it is not a straight forward solution.

I can think of at least 1 casino where you can do this (surrender pairs for 80% back).

[hitthat16]

Well alright then.. Is this place in the USA?