Cheating poll

**LoneWoLF** · 09-17-2016, 03:14 AM

Let me just ask this one last time and get some answers in a poll. What are the chances a non-indian casino will stack the deck or rig their ASMs in todays day and age? Everytime i have a losing session, especially at some small shady store, i immediately think i got cheated, i dont know why. I know the fluctuations of the game and that it's completely normal to lose and lose drastically at times, but idk how to get over my skepticism, i guess i just dont trust anyone or anything anymore and it's affected my mind. Maybe it has to do with me completely killing 2-3 stores and me always losing at 1 or 2 stores so it gets in my head. So, hopefully there's something you guys can tell me that can ease my mind from here on out going forwardi n my playing career to reassure me that there never is any cheating going on so i can just focus on the game of blackjack. Variance is enough pain as it is, i just want to get this cheating thing out of my mind. Im actually pretty good with dealing with losses, what gets me angry is the possibility im getting cheated, which in the back of my mind tells me im overthinking and it's just variance like usual.

With all this being said, what would you say are the chances of non-indian casinos cheating these days such as stacking the deck or doing something with the shufflers or anything else? Also, if a casino was to cheat, how do you think they would do it?

**Koz84** · 09-17-2016, 04:05 AM

I voted 20%, despite actually thinking it's far less. But I didn't want to select 0% because there's probably a close to 100% chance that somewhere out there in the vast planet of ours a shady casino operates.

**20 to 1 Spread** · 09-17-2016, 04:35 AM

Here's how I would see it. Play at stores that you would consider profitable. Now there's almost no reason for them to ruin a good thing. For extracting X % more, they are risking being closed down for good if ever caught or at least lose a vast majority of their customer base (I don't know law, but I assume this to be true). That way, logically, you can reason it out to be variance and the probability of being cheated is slim to none. There's nothing definite in life after all. Dont you dare say death

And if you absolutely can't help it, I guess you're sacrificing an EV outlet, but don't play at those stores anymore. Though this is not a solution and merely a temporary resolve from the underlying issue, which may grow and come back in a more aggressive manner. For instance, now in the future, whenever you lose, you just don't play there anymore (thinking you got cheated). Soon you'll run out of stores in your area!

**Three** · 09-17-2016, 05:05 AM

You never listen to what people say anyway why should they waste their time. I have already told you what I thought about this but you said you are perfect and already understand everything there is to know about interacting with a casino. Go reread what I wrote in your many threads on the idea that you can't lose because you are so good so you must be getting cheated when you do lose.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 09-17-2016, 06:53 AM

I voted 20% because there was no choices > 0 but < 20%.

It is highly dependent on locale, level of action, etc.

My guesstimate is more like 5% on sovereign land and 1% elsewhere.

**Bubbles** · 09-17-2016, 07:14 AM

I voted 20%, but I feel it is a much smaller number. Gaming has some pretty good deterrents to keep the casinos from cheating. I feel the vast majority of them do not cheat.

**Ted** · 09-17-2016, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by LoneWoLF

With all this being said, what would you say are the chances of non-indian casinos cheating these days such as stacking the deck or doing something with the shufflers or anything else? Also, if a casino was to cheat, how do you think they would do it?

Question: Why do you exclude Indian casinos? The two that I am familiar with are not run by the tribe themselves but by Las Vegas Casino management companies. I am just wondering why you don't include them in the discussion.

**Jabberwocky** · 09-17-2016, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ted

Question: Why do you exclude Indian casinos? The two that I am familiar with are not run by the tribe themselves but by Las Vegas Casino management companies. I am just wondering why you don't include them in the discussion.

It should be axiomatic. If they ban APs, they aren't cheating.

**Ted** · 09-17-2016, 05:05 PM

Please correct me if I am wrong, but does your statement mean to differentiate Indian Casinos from others because the Indian Casinos ban APs and the non-indian casinos do not?

**Norm** · 09-17-2016, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

It should be axiomatic. If they ban APs, they aren't cheating.

That's an interesting conclusion, that could very well be true in the majority of cases.

But, beware the slithy toves.

**LoneWoLF** · 09-17-2016, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

It should be axiomatic. If they ban APs, they aren't cheating.

Already thought about that. The problem is they could just be bluffing to make you think they offer an honest game. Cause any rational thinker will say the same thing you're saying. "Why would they kick me out if they were cheating?"

Reverse psychology could be at play here. But I would say you're 99% correct. Just realize the 1% that are cheating are smart enough to employ these types of strategies such as what I just mentioned to make you think its an honest game.

**LoneWoLF** · 09-17-2016, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fenix

I voted 20%, but I feel it is a much smaller number. Gaming has some pretty good deterrents to keep the casinos from cheating. I feel the vast majority of them do not cheat.

Deterrents? Like what? Cause to me, it would seem easy to bypass the commission and not get caught if a casino really wanted to. Maybe I'm being naive, but I just don't think the gaming commissions are all that strict about how they monitor casinos. There could also possibly be lobbyists in between to make this whole thing corrupt like you see with big pharmaceuticals and the FDA

**seriousplayer** · 09-17-2016, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by LoneWoLF

Let me just ask this one last time and get some answers in a poll. What are the chances a non-indian casino will stack the deck or rig their ASMs in todays day and age? Everytime i have a losing session, especially at some small shady store, i immediately think i got cheated, i dont know why. I know the fluctuations of the game and that it's completely normal to lose and lose drastically at times, but idk how to get over my skepticism, i guess i just dont trust anyone or anything anymore and it's affected my mind. Maybe it has to do with me completely killing 2-3 stores and me always losing at 1 or 2 stores so it gets in my head. So, hopefully there's something you guys can tell me that can ease my mind from here on out going forwardi n my playing career to reassure me that there never is any cheating going on so i can just focus on the game of blackjack. Variance is enough pain as it is, i just want to get this cheating thing out of my mind. Im actually pretty good with dealing with losses, what gets me angry is the possibility im getting cheated, which in the back of my mind tells me im overthinking and it's just variance like usual.

With all this being said, what would you say are the chances of non-indian casinos cheating these days such as stacking the deck or doing something with the shufflers or anything else? Also, if a casino was to cheat, how do you think they would do it?

Hi Lonewolf,

May I recommend you a book? "HOW TO DETECT CASINO CHEATING AT BLACKJACK" by Bill Zender. You can get it in amazon used for $6.46. Please read up and try to educate yourself first.