Now that I know I need to count sevens, what is a good resource or index for this?
Thanks a bunch
It sounds like you havent had many hours in the casino because your worries are about very minor things that you think it takes to extract money from casinos in the modern day. Unless you're one of the few with access to great single deck games? If not, even double deck isnt much better than a nice 6 deck game, unless of course you're finding a DD game dealt to about half a deck cut off, which is still possible. The problem with double deck is the rules wont be as good as what you'll find on average in shoe games and it's not that hard to find a nice deeply dealt shoe game and with both those factors, a general 6 deck game these days will match the general DD game being offered around the country. But most importantly, double deck games are also as sweaty as it gets and all you will be doing by playing them is cutting your career very short and get flyered all over town especially in vegas where they set double deck counter traps.Originally Posted by DatabaseGuy
You don't NEED to count sevens. Should you go to the trouble of f counting 7's along with your count, the gain would be far less than if you got better at deck estimation, optimal betting, game selection and other strategies. Even if you were perfect in everything else, changing to a higher level count would be easier than counting sevens and factoring them in to your play.
Wow. To be proficient at side counting (unless you use a balanced side count) you are making accurate quarter deck estimates. Can you make accurate quarter deck estimates after how many years without side counting? If you can't that argument is actually the inverse of reality. How much more accurate do you think you need to be? I hope everyone is already betting optimally but they will need to recompute because their optimal bet will increase or RoR will decrease. Are you suggesting that people don't care about game selection until they consider side counting? The point about other strategies is the only one that is valid but only if side counting prevents you from pursuing other strategies. This is not a given. I know people that do all the advanced strategies with a side count. Your brain is your tool to get an advantage. The more you handicap what your brain can do by saying you don't have to do this or that or it isn't worth it the more primitive that tool is. You don't want to till your 2 acre lot with a push plow. You want to till your 50,000 acres with a top of the line tractor. Why not develop all the possible skills a counter can use and decide what combination of them is best for you? You can still till that 2 acre lot with the tractor. The difference is you have come and gone before anyone has time to take much of a look at you. Don't forget gains compound on each other. As you stack techniques the gain will be more than the sum of the parts.
Just to add for the OP,
Always side count the ace first before any other card if you insist on side counting something. Getting that BC as high as possible is crucial to your bankroll. If you are going to go to the trouble of learning a level-2 count and side count something, why use Zen? I would (and do) use Hi-Opt II over Zen and Omega II because the tag treats the 6 card more accurately in terms of EOR (and eliminates the need to count the 9 with Omega II). These tags, with the side counted ace, bring the BC up higher than Zen (and within a hair of Omega II). The IC is also increased substantially. The count won't be more difficult than learning Zen or Omega II either because the tags are almost the same. This makes it more preferable in my view.
So in other words, pick the count around the ace side count, not the seven side count. Only after you have done this, then start to include sevens if you feel up to the task.
Yes counting the ace in the main count really cripples everything except BC. Hiopt2 is king and you must side count aces in any ace neutral count in order to make it worth using. Counting anything other than 4 and 5 as +2 tags in a level 2 count hurts your overall results. It is about better defining advantage or sorting situations into bins that have a much smaller range of advantage (This means bets are more accurate which is different than what BC says. BC says how well your count tags correlate to the different card ranks EoR's. Betting accuracy is not indicated by BC but there is a degree of correlation there). And counting the 9 messes up insurance and hurts your most common hit/stand deviations of a hand of 12. This is enough to outweigh any gains from counting the 9. The truth is Hiopt2 is not easy to use and side counting anything needs great deck estimation skills unless you use a balanced side count. That said if and when you get to be able to use Hiopt2/ASC proficiently you will be using the most effective count of the ones readily available.
Maybe I am good at all of the above and improving PE is my main goal in a market when aggressive betting strategies are seen as an obvious flag, unless you are good a passing for what you're not.
I keep count and don't lose it, I estimate decks very well, I apply proper deviations and I make money (I have the log to prove it).
So, why not add up to my game? This is a hobby, for me, I don't see why I could not do everything I can to improve it?
Some of my friends golf and they are constantly training to improve their put and drives, making micro adjustments to their stance and hiring coaches to improve every aspect of it. What I am doing here is similar.
LW is king of parroting trite expressions and mimicking what is spoon-fed to him. Unfortunately there is more to being successful than that. As Norm, says that is just the starting point. It is up to the individual where it ends. Keep developing skills and find the right mix to get your desired results. You may find you don't use all the skills you learn but when they are needed you have them in your skill set to maximize whatever AP opportunities you find. It is about being prepared. To use the golf analogy. You are stocking your bag with more clubs to be ready for every lie and every shot possible. LW is running around with a driver a putter and an iron. Sure they might get the job done but score will be affected by the tools you equip yourself with. LW found a game where this would be very useful due to the deep pen. He was not equipped to take the best advantage and he believes he was cheated rather than understand that at deep pen really weird stuff can happen and detailed info is worth a lot. When you get a big edge the deck is quite whacky. Assuming things are at the norm is denying reality especially at deep pen.
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briefly, as to your why?
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