I quit

[LoneWoLF]

Many of you probably won't care about my story, but I will share it anyway.

I started learning to count around age 22 during my last year in college. I studied up as much as I could. The first 3 years i barely played and when i did it was only low stakes and i believe i lost about 2-3k, give or take as I didnt have a log at the time. I studied up as much as I could during those years and was basically a sponge, reading book after book and absorbing everything I could from the pros on this site as well as other forums and what they had to say. The year after that, I started to finally save up from two minimum wage jobs and so i played more but still not that many hours only about 150 or so that year and was only red chipping it. The result was only a couple thousand or so profit. Unfortunately it was enough to get me backed off at a sweaty joint for my first ever backoff as that's where the couple of thousand came from.

Around that time that year I also begain getting into the markets and slowly started putting money into a stock that I held for 3 years. I managed to save up 30k over those 3 years by grinding it out in the jobs that I worked at as well as playing part time blackjack whenever I could. I was up 95% of the time on the stock during those 3 years to the tune of 20-30k profit, but sadly I never cashed out and ended up losing 5k from my initial 30k investment. Also towards the end of the last year of holding the stock, before I cashed it out, I then started to take it really serious with blackjack. With a lot of money coming in by finally getting a somewhat decent job giving me 600 a week, I continued to save as much as I could and started to play more and was able to bet bigger stakes and with bigger stakes came attention from casinos.

I got up to about 25k profit within 300 hours give or take. Not sure of the exact hours because the way I track my hours is from when I get to the casino to the time i leave and not the actual time i count down shoes. So it was roughly 300 hours playing mid green low black and got to about 25k profit, but the last 50 hours or so have been brutal and gave back about 18k. During this downswing I lost my favorite casino to play at as I got backed off from there and left me limited casinos to play at, mainly the ones that I have always struggled at. This now leaves me at about 10k profit overall and in the green for the last two years of which I played part time starting at red chips to mid green-low black at about 500-550 hours or so and well below EV. If you count the first 3 years where I didnt keep a log an estimate is I lost about 2-3k so that puts me at only 8k in the green since I started this adventure and to me that's horrible.

This hasnt been worth it at all to me and I feel like I wasted so much time in my youth with blackjack that could've been put towards my bachelors degree that I earned when I was 23. I guess blackjack just isnt worth it if you have to constantly travel 1-1.5 hours to casinos because these 500 hours felt like an eternity and it's not even 1/2 of what blackjack pros play each year. I guess if one wants to make money at this, he needs to move to an area with a huge amount of games in close proximity, ie. Vegas, which was my plan but after my stock didnt work out, and the huge downswing, i now forgot about that. These last 3 months have been brutal.

Good luck to me, im gonna need it as im now 27 living at home with no job, no girl, not many friends anymore and with a degree that I haven't even used with also no real work experience that can help me with my degree. I guess the good thing is I have no debt, a car paid off, 35k in savings, and of course the worthless business degree that I might never use, but nonetheless I'm at a real crossroads in my life right now and not sure what to do. And yes, for the ones that can connect the dots, you can now see why I have been out of control on the forums the past 3 months.

#PrayForTheWolf

[BJGenius007]

If I were you, I would go back to school to get a master degree in computer science. I would also choose a Blackjack topic as the master thesis. In some schools, they replace master programming project with the thesis. That would also be great for you to choose writing a simulation program for BJ.

[moses]

Let's see. When I was 27. I'd been married for 3 months. Just moved to Cal. Had saved from 0 to $100k in mutual funds. I'd already bought and sold a house. 13.5% interest. Can you believe that? Paid cash for a New Camaro and drove it off the showroom floor. We drove to Cal with everything we owned in that car which included two tv's and a cocker spaniel. I worked two jobs.

I'd say you are doing okay. Make hay while the sun shines and you are young. Keep working a regular job that puts your degree to good use. Then work out all the bugs on Verite with your Wong Halves ten count on DD.

Fly to Vegas 3 or 4 times a year. Kick some DD butt straight up and bang some beaver. Lol

[LoneWoLF]

Let's see. When I was 27. I'd been married for 3 months. Just moved to Cal. Had saved from 0 to $100k in mutual funds. I'd already bought and sold a house. 13.5% interest. Can you believe that? Paid cash for a New Camaro and drove it off the showroom floor. We drove to Cal with everything we owned in that car which included two tv's and a cocker spaniel. I worked two jobs.

I'd say you are doing okay. Make hay while the sun shines and you are young. Keep working a regular job that puts your degree to good use. Then work out all the bugs on Verite with your Wong Halves ten count on DD.

Fly to Vegas 3 or 4 times a year. Kick some DD butt straight up and bang some beaver. Lol

You just made me feel even worse. Congrats to you, you've put me to shame really.

Also, a bachelors in Business Management is pretty much worthless so it's hard to put it to good use especially when every job asks for work related experience and I have none. It's either sales or sit at home and pray. And im choosing the latter.

[moses]

My kids say the same thing. I was always tough on them because I knew the real world wouldn't be easy.

But I'd say you are in the upper echelon. You've got a degree, a car, and no debt. I can't name 10 others that have this distinction. I know several as that's my kids age bracket. I get these same type of diatribe emails often from the youngest.

Give yourself a pat on the back. Then put on your big boy pants and face the world.

[LoneWoLF]

My kids say the same thing. I was always tough on them because I knew the real world wouldn't be easy.

But I'd say you are in the upper echelon. You've got a degree, a car, and no debt. I can't name 10 others that have this distinction. I know several as that's my kids age bracket. I get these same type of diatribe emails often from the youngest.

Give yourself a pat on the back. Then put on your big boy pants and face the world.

I also got 35k in cash. But the big thing is I dont know what to do. No job entices me, the ones that do want work related experience. How the hell can i get work experience if no job ever hires me? It's a catch 22. And now with a 4 year gap since college finished, jobs are going to wonder what the hell I was doing in those 4 years cause the jobs I worked were for the most part under the table.

[Bigdaddy]

But the big thing is I dont know what to do. No job entices me, the ones that do want work related experience. How the hell can i get work experience if no job ever hires me? It's a catch 22. And now with a 4 year gap since college finished, jobs are going to wonder what the hell I was doing in those 4 years cause the jobs I worked were for the most part under the table.

Go back to school for a couple years and get the accounting courses you need to qualify to sit for the CPA exam. Then pass the exam and get hired by a CPA firm. Sounds like you have the analytical skills to succeed in this profession. The market for young incoming CPAs is very hot and will stay that way for the next several years. Nobody will care about the gap in your work experience - just tell them that the light bulb went on when you found out that your business degree wasn't worth the dust to blow it to hell with.

You'll be a good CPA - maybe a great one! And when you get to travel to that CPE conference in Las Vegas (or any major city), you'll know what to do in your spare time while your buddies are all losing money at the craps table.

[LoneWoLF]

Go back to school for a couple years and get the accounting courses you need to qualify to sit for the CPA exam. Then pass the exam and get hired by a CPA firm. Sounds like you have the analytical skills to succeed in this profession. The market for young incoming CPAs is very hot and will stay that way for the next several years. Nobody will care about the gap in your work experience - just tell them that the light bulb went on when you found out that your business degree wasn't worth the dust to blow it to hell with.

You'll be a good CPA - maybe a great one! And when you get to travel to that CPE conference in Las Vegas (or any major city), you'll know what to do in your spare time while your buddies are all losing money at the craps table.

The thought of school and forking over more money after the 4 year bachelors hasnt worked out is not something im thinking about or looking forward to. Last thing I need is losing all the cash I have and going into debt with uncertainty ill even get hired after passing the CPA exam. Im just sick of school and all the promises they give you. To me it's just one big scam. The only time it's not a scam is if you go to a top tier school and major in something 'specific', otherwise you will never stand out. The market is saturated with people with degrees, let alone 'business' degrees. Luckily my parents helped pay for my business degree, if they didnt, I think I would've been smart enough to not go straight in right away at the premature age of 19 and probably take a couple years off. You got to love how high school and the media put so much pressure on kids at 19 and expect them to know what they want to do with their lives and if you dont go to school, you're a loser. It's one big scam and pathetic at the same time. First two years are everything you learned in high school and depending on tuition you're already deep in the hole just learning things you learned in high school.

[Three]

DigDaddy had a great suggestion. One of my siblings is an accountant and has so much money there isn't enough time to spend it. The accounting firm that this sibling started is one of the leaders in that field of accounting in the country. My sister in-law is also an accountant and makes so much money my brother is a stay at home Dad to 3 children.

The only time it's not a scam is if you go to a top tier school and major in something 'specific', otherwise you will never stand out. The market is saturated with people with degrees, let alone 'business' degrees.

All you need is for someone to hire you. Then you show them you are worth more than anyone they have seen in a long time and negotiate your salary and benefits. Every company is hungry for people that excel at tasks that few can do well. Every employer I ever had appreciated my abilities and had no problem compensating me appropriately when asked to do so. If anyone complained the boss would dare them to be as valuable as I am to the company and tell them, if they can be that valuable they will get the same compensation and benefits.

[LoneWoLF]

DigDaddy had a great suggestion. One of my siblings is an accountant and has so much money there isn't enough time to spend it. The accounting firm that this sibling started is one of the leaders in that field of accounting in the country. My sister in-law is also an accountant and makes so much money my brother is a stay at home Dad to 3 children.

All you need is for someone to hire you. Then you show them you are worth more than anyone they have seen in a long time and negotiate your salary and benefits. Every company is hungry for people that excel at tasks that few can do well. Every employer I ever had appreciated my abilities and had no problem compensating me appropriately. If anyone complained the boss would dare them to be as valuable as I am to the company and tell them, if they can be that they will get the same compensation and benefits.

Maybe there is a way to use all this blackjack knowledge that I have gained over the years to a job that will appreciate it and see that as a benefit prior to hiring me? ANy ideas to which jobs would see professional blackjack as a desirable trait? I mean it shows the ability to be analytical, dedication, discipline, etc. This also brings up the much debated topic of should you put being an AP on your CV/Resume? Ive long debated that because in the real world, it's a hit or miss. It can show you some indirect attributes but also to the uneducated, you can be seen as a degenerate and not trustworthy.

[Three]

Your trouble is you present yourself as someone that is untrainable. Everyone tells you that you are wrong but you won't take direction. This trait will be your stumbling block if you can't get beyond it.

It is likely why you quit being an AP. You told me you didn't care about the heat or the backs but when the backs came you weren't prepared with a plan of what to do next. You lost your convenient store that you had the most success at and decided that was the last straw to break your AP career's back. At your age I wouldn't recommend AP as your primary focus. Look at it as a fallback. I think listening to KJ talk about playing 100 hours a year screwed you up. I don't know how many a full time AP plays but my bet is a third of that or maybe half that. You need to spread you play pretty thin to keep your exposure low enough if you play 1000 hours a year. In Vegas you have enough stores at hand to do that but the games suck. If you focus on quality of opportunities rather than quantity you will do better with less exposure. All that mantra about playing more to make the same with an easier approach causes you to play too much. That is fine if you are okay with the BO's that come with the added exposure. It is a shame that you envied KJ so much and did what would cause you issues despite everyone's warnings on the site. It is about a balance between exposure and amount won. The more you win the worse the exposure is to get the win in general.

You need a strategy that controls losing runs and makes hitting your win tolerance goal in a short time relatively likely. You need to be happy with a smaller win or a loss if your play exposes you too much. You can't decide you don't like that deal and overexpose yourself without being prepared to do what is necessary when you get the BO you made sure was coming, the only question was how soon. Tarzan would have been one to model your approach after. I am not talking about using the Tarzan Count. I am talking about his way of balancing amount won with exposure at the tables. The simpler your approach the more you have to expose yourself to execute it. That means a simpler approach will generally allow less playing time not more, less EV and more severe losing and winning runs just to maintain the same longevity. Most of the count debate is about EV but I use a complex approach so I can win what I want and the casino is comfortable with my approach. That way I can get in get the money and get out faster with an approach that they are comfortable not acting against me. This allows you to play fewer hours per year and still get the money. Think about all the times you got up 5 to 10 max bets only to play a long day which overexposed you and left with a smaller win or even a loss. And what happened the times you won more. The heat ramped up at that casino. It is about amount won and exposure. It is that simple. If you want to play more or win more you need to play more stores. In your area you can easily visit 3 to 6 stores in one day.

[Norm]

You need a strategy that controls losing runs

I really dislike this statement. It makes no sense to me.

[moses]

I really dislike this statement. It makes no sense to me.

Well Norm. Everyone worries about the upside. Few seem concerned about minimize downside volatility.

In biz or production, we call it bottlenecking. It not something you can put in a SIM. You just recognize and take advantage. It becomes second nature to a point I don't even realize I'm doing it.