Difficulties of playing full indexes when with 2-3 others at table..

**ZeeBabar** · 07-10-2016, 07:57 AM

I mostly play the I-18 plays ( minus the splitting of 10's against 5,6) but recently tried to learn and implement more indexes at DD games. The problem is that it's really difficult when playing with others, especially bigger bettors at table...

As an example, I have a $25 chip, others playing chunky Green or Black, the count is TC -5, I get a 13, dealer has a 5 and the call is to hit but if you do and as a result the dealer does not bust, the others at table lose, they are cursing at you.

Another example, I have a $25 chip, another is playing 2 Black chips, TC is -5, I have a 14, the dealer card is a 4. Play calls for me to hit. I hit and get a 10, bust, dealer has a 9 under his 4, gets a 7 and the ploppy loses $200.

Whatdo you do? Do you opt to not go with the indexes since it's a marginal play and it's more important to keep the ploppies at the table (less heat measures since ploppy is losing)?

**Frank Galvin** · 07-10-2016, 08:17 AM

zzb, since you are now entering into the twilight zone of ploppy psychology (not necessarily impugning yours), then you might ask yourself, what would you do if you had the chunky green and black bet, or the $200 bet out, and some schmuck who insists on sitting in the last seat hit his 14 against the dealer's stiff upcard (a 4).

Me, and most others here, we are going to trust the math (possibly influenced by combinatorial analysis for that hand). Most of us wouldn't bother trying to figure out how ploppies react. It is our hand, our cards, and most importantly, our money! Mind you, if a ploppy wanted to buy my hand to prevent a hit, EV.

**Ryemo** · 07-10-2016, 08:38 AM

Oh God, here we go again. This is only the hundredth time you've posted this exact same concern. How many "second opinions" do you need before you actually start following the advice?

Zee, just quit playing blackjack. Your skin is obviously not thick enough to deal with the harsh criticisms from stupid ploppies. And I already know what you're going to say: "but I don't want to piss off any regulars because it might result in heat from the pit, blah blah blah...." And my response to that will be; your game is too weak to attract any heat anyway, so I wouldn't be concerned about it.

**ZeeBabar** · 07-10-2016, 08:42 AM

Moses and Frank, two respected AP's with different approaches. Personality wise, I am more inclined to not upset others too much so often, I just stand on a 13 or 14 against a bust card regardless of count but am wondering if I have to get tougher, don't give a shit about table harmony or fear consequences.

**stopgambling** · 07-10-2016, 09:08 AM

Use your surrounding to help win your battle (art of war)

**Freightman** · 07-10-2016, 09:23 AM

Zee
Let em bitch. This is not a team sport. I've met all kinds spouting ploppy logic - my response is generally, should the action lose - my money I'll play the way that I want. If the action wins of course I'm the hero and all is forgiven.

One notable exception
If a house valued ploppy with his 2x300 is next to me with my min $25 bet and I have 12 or 13 or 14 v dealer 2 or 3, I'll say something like - I don't give a shit if I hit or not - do you have a preference? Pit loves a happy table, and that action on my part has the pit giving me brownie points.

**Stealth** · 07-10-2016, 09:33 AM

My most recent response to a player asking me if I normally hit 13 V 3 was "only when I feel like it, hell I may hit anything just depends on how I feel, I am here to gamble". My intents was not to engage him but to put him (and dealer and pit) on notice that I like to gamble and may make "bad" plays.

This one decided he needed to find another table which also works for me. Besides, I decided long ago not to let someone else control how I feel.

**Freightman** · 07-10-2016, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Stealth

My most recent response to a player asking me if I normally hit 13 V 3 was "only when I feel like it, hell I may hit anything just depends on how I feel, I am here to gamble". My intents was not to engage him but to put him (and dealer and pit) on notice that I like to gamble and may make "bad" plays.

This one decided he needed to find another table which also works for me. Besides, I decided long ago not to let someone else control how I feel.

That approach helped me get rid of a yappy broad who was driving me nuts. She demanded her own table where she could control the Flow with her magnificent 9v7 doubles in negative counts.

**Freightman** · 07-10-2016, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Did you try showing her your nuts?

Dead on balls accurate
https://youtu.be/mEOjo0imqKE

**BJGenius007** · 07-10-2016, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

I mostly play the I-18 plays ( minus the splitting of 10's against 5,6) but recently tried to learn and implement more indexes at DD games. The problem is that it's really difficult when playing with others, especially bigger bettors at table...

As an example, I have a $25 chip, others playing chunky Green or Black, the count is TC -5, I get a 13, dealer has a 5 and the call is to hit but if you do and as a result the dealer does not bust, the others at table lose, they are cursing at you.

Another example, I have a $25 chip, another is playing 2 Black chips, TC is -5, I have a 14, the dealer card is a 4. Play calls for me to hit. I hit and get a 10, bust, dealer has a 9 under his 4, gets a 7 and the ploppy loses $200.

Whatdo you do? Do you opt to not go with the indexes since it's a marginal play and it's more important to keep the ploppies at the table (less heat measures since ploppy is losing)?

I can't believe how many times I had my max bet out ($400 or $450), some ploppy hit his or her 15 against dealer up card 4 or 5. He lost his $25 and I lost my good hand because the dealer made it to 21 due to the ploppy's action. Just remember that when you make the index play. It is payback time.

**Freightman** · 07-10-2016, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Lol. Good one freighter. But I meant showing you're nuts. LIKE pouring your beer in a bowl and then lapping it up like a dog.

Sure, she would have gon crazy with a 10 split - would have been worth it at minimum

**Freightman** · 07-10-2016, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by moses

Lol. Good one freighter. But I meant showing you're nuts. LIKE pouring your beer in a bowl and then lapping it up like a dog.

Should have added - I've got her number now and can piss her off at will.

**RCJH** · 07-10-2016, 09:20 PM

Zee, go play a game of Spanish21. If you think BJ ploppies are bad, you'll love the Spanish 21 ploppies.

On a more serious note, I avoid third base. Frankly, I avoid playing with others. But if I'm at third, and I need to hit, I hit. If someone wants to complain, too bad for them.

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