Which Count To Use

[Ryemo]

How is real world experience, empirical? At the end of the day, it's what happens in the real world, not what happens in a sim. Will you still say it's empirical after 50 years? We only have so much time on this earth and at the end of the day it's what happens in the real world that matters.

Speaking of the real world... feel free to join us here sometime. It's nice down here. I'm no advocate for advanced counts by any means, but just let it go already. The count debate is honestly the most boring debate EVER! It's been played out too much. With everything that involves advantage play, for some reason we always get stuck on THIS subject. And as I mentioned earlier, I think the specific count system is one of the least important aspects of successful AP.

[Norm]

Besides the real money out there is knowing how to frame casinos and provoke them into injuring you and then suing them for high 5 or low 6 figures.

There's a quicky in my book:

It has been suggested that you can turn a barring into an advantage-player opportunity and should get in the guard’s face to provoke him to violence. You can then can sue the casino and collect damages.


This reminds me of a scene from the movie Midnight Cowboy. Ratso, the long-time cheap con, is walking with a wannabe con. Not paying attention, he walks through a red light and is nearly hit by a cab. After an exchange of curses, he advises the newbie that this is a great way to make money. Get hit by a cab and sue. Then we realize that this is the reason he has been limping throughout the movie. He receives a one-time income of a couple thousand dollars, spends the rest of his life with a disability, and thinks he has won.


When you get to the point that you believe provoking violence against yourself is an advantage-player opportunity, you should start reviewing your career decisions.

[Freightman]

There's a quicky in my book:

It has been suggested that you can turn a barring into an advantage-player opportunity and should get in the guard’s face to provoke him to violence. You can then can sue the casino and collect damages.


This reminds me of a scene from the movie Midnight Cowboy. Ratso, the long-time cheap con, is walking with a wannabe con. Not paying attention, he walks through a red light and is nearly hit by a cab. After an exchange of curses, he advises the newbie that this is a great way to make money. Get hit by a cab and sue. Then we realize that this is the reason he has been limping throughout the movie. He receives a one-time income of a couple thousand dollars, spends the rest of his life with a disability, and thinks he has won.


When you get to the point that you believe provoking violence against yourself is an advantage-player opportunity, you should start reviewing your career decisions.

I'm walkng here
https://youtu.be/c412hqucHKw

[Freightman]

Ironic. Dustin Hoffman also played Rainman years later. Heres to you Mrs Robinson.

Counting cards

https://youtu.be/wAadouGkwMQ

[seriousplayer]

Counting cards

https://youtu.be/wAadouGkwMQ

Why would he hit a hard 18 vs 4 when he knows that there are a lot of tens left in the deck? Is he doing that for cover? Would it make sense to stay and let the dealer bust?

[Frank Galvin]

The character was an autistic savant. You cannot ascribe "normal" motivations to such individuals' reasoning.

This was artistic license used to demonstrate that Raymond knew there were "lots of Queens left". Just enjoy the clip and don't believe that Dustin Hoffman's character would have demostrated this knowledge to his brother by intentionally losing his hand.

[Freightman]

Why would he hit a hard 18 vs 4 when he knows that there are a lot of tens left in the deck? Is he doing that for cover? Would it make sense to stay and let the dealer bust?

Dustin Hoffman plays the part of an autistic idiot savant. He doesn't know how to play blackjack - but he knows the exact composition of the entire deck. If I recall correctly, Dustin betting 1 chip says to Tom to bet small. Dustin betting 2 chips signals for Tom to bet big.

Here's another link that kind of gives you the idea.
https://youtu.be/kthFUFBwbZg

This one gives you a better idea
https://youtu.be/RW1qHA5Hqwc

[LoneWoLF]

Yup im dumb as rocks.

Keep side counting guys.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/sdcnt.htm

[Norm]

You are linking to a 32 year old article that doesn't even claim what you are claiming.

[Villiam]

The article claims much of what he's claiming actually...

I thought this was particularly keen: from Snyder, "Some players will side-count aces regardless of how small the dollar return might be, simply to play more accurately for the sake of playing more accurately. This type of player enjoys the challenge of playing a mathematically precise game more than any other aspect of card counting, including profit potential."

I find that obsessing over these small numbers without assessing every other more important edge-creating move is mathematical masturbation.

Also this: "Given like conditions, the more complex systems, such as those with side-counts, rarely significantly outperform the simpler systems. This is especially true in multi-deck games..."

This: "Most card counters, because they are not full-time professional gamblers, do not have enough time to dedicate to the memorization and practice required for the more difficult card counting systems."

I think this is especially important. Because there is so much else to consider and work on besides the count, I would encourage every green player to go simple for a while and work on getting good at what really matters. SO many things SO much more important.

AND This: "One of the major simplifications a player can employ, with little effect on his win rate, is to quit attempting to side-count aces."

I mean, c'mon Norm, the list goes on and on and on of quotes in here that support his point, being that asking AT FIRST, or even down the road a bit, what count to use is almost completely irrelevant and mires ones study of what does matter UNLESS ONE HAS ACCESS TO A PARTICULARLY RARE GAME. I get your point. I get LoneWolf's. Ryemo added a ton along similar lines of alternative importance. The fact is, the many major contributors on this forum are coming from very professional backgrounds and so their lenses are foggy and vision myopic, not because they are weak, quite the contrary, their games are so strong that looking at the tiniest edges is all that's left to do.

Let's agree to disagree and be happy with that and move on.

[Norm]

What LW is claiming is that counts like RPC (without any side counting) do not perform better than HiLo and that sims that say otherwise should be ignored. This is utter nonsense.

[MJGolf]

Bodarc:

Maybe instead of this thread being titled, "Which Count to Use", it should be "How to apply the Count YOU choose". Good advice my friend

[Three]

So will a level 100 super non-linear tarzan count playing an 8 deck 60% pen game. Meanwhile im playing a 90% game with hilo and making 3 times as much. See the problem?

I see the problem. you need to have Tarzan play a game he wouldn't even play to begin with because it is so bad while you play one that is so good that it is almost nonexistent and then usually quite well protected to do better than he does and I am still not sure you would do better. That should say all anyone needs to know about the subject. There is no best count. It is a personal choice based on many individual things.