This is an AP site. It is not a HiLo at plain vanilla shoe games site.Originally Posted by LoneWoLF
This.
Once I started side counting aces, I never went back. Using a non-typical count can score points for longevity as well (though they'll get you sooner or later). I don't fault those that use "plain-old high-lo" though. Are you satisfied with your count? Yes? Then that's all that matters. It's your money and only you should decide what's worth it. If your count is only getting you $5 an hour and you're happy with that, then that's all that matters.
How do you know that wasn't just positive variance and any count would have gotten what you're getting? At the end of the day, in a shoe game, side counts are pretty much worthless. Are you playing primarily shoes or pitch? If it's pitch, disregard my statement
It is indeed pitch. I use Zen on 6D and Hi-Opt II on 2D. I am open to side counting aces on 6D, but if I do, it would have to be something that I would implement gradually.
As to variance, I reside in the camp that philosophizes that even a partial percent gain is worthwhile in the long run. The rules of the game may continue to be diminished to the point to where Hi-Lo just won't be worth it anymore for anybody. If that happens, I want to be one of the "last-men-standing" with my more powerful count.
Your count affects your ride to the long run. The long run expectations aren't that different between counts but what happens along the way to get to the long run is. Unless you are counting and not paying attention to trends and swings the difference should be apparent. The severity, frequency and length of downswings will change by the approach you use. Every approach has some short term downswings. It is part of the deal. How likely they are to stack up on each other or be quickly erased by big wins on each side, as I like to say bookending the big loss, will depend on your count. How severe they are in general depends on your count. How often they tend to happen depends on your count. If you are comfortable with your ride to the long run then stick with what you use. If not you may want to use some more advanced counting techniques. Like MP said side counting aces changed his ride for him. He noticed the difference in both heat and results.
On this site there are 3 or 4 people who advocate side counting cards other than aces with ace neutral counts. Not a huge number. I don't think people who advocate side counting are delusional; there is merit to that approach under certain conditions. What I do know is that some of these advocates don't seem to understand diminishing returns when side counting is applied to the wrong type of game, i.e. 6D and 8D shoe games. Flash is the one who seems to understand diminishing returns, stating that he employs a side count of 7s in 2D games only.
Once again, we need to see proof of how well these custom counts work under various conditions of decks in play and penetration. What happened in a year's worth of play is statistically irrelevant. And an improvement with a particular decision that relies on a deck composition which occurs every 200 -300 hours of play is equally irrelevant, in the long run.
I wouldn't use a side count with shoes. But, I know plenty of people that do. Side-counting 7s in shoes makes no sense to me. But, aces is another story. Here are two sims, Hi-Opt II, Ill18, 6D, H17 DAS, 1-15 with and without an ASC. Gain with one-deck cut off is 12.2%. With 1.5 decks cut off, 15%. The gain should be more pronounced with 8D.
hioptiiasc.jpg
Last edited by Norm; 06-30-2016 at 09:26 AM.
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
For the fun of it, I added HiLo and Hi-Opt II ASC with full indices. Now, unlike what you may read at other sites; I generally advise people go with simpler counting strategies. But, there is a reason that some people opt for more power. From HiLo to Hi-Opt II Full ASC at 75% penetration, we see a 30% gain. 32% gain with one-deck cut off. And this is not a weird multi-column strategy. It's a strategy that goes back 40 years and doesn't even include the multi-parameter indices included with that strategy. What I'm saying, is that we are not talking about pennies.
hioptiiascb.jpg
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
Of course, I stated that I was referring to:
meaning side counting other cards either counted as zero in a main count, or already counted with the main count.
Non-ace-reckoned counts require side counting the aces in some manner for betting accuracy, as your sims show.
Actually, it's interesting. Here's an odd chart. This compares the gain from Hi-Opt II with Ill18 (HiLo is negative compared to Hi-Opt II). The blue line shows the full indices kicking in at high penetration, like a turbocharger kicking in at high RPM.
hioptiiascd.jpg
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
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