Halves does NOT side-count Nines (9's)Originally Posted by Freightman
True, absolutely - it's part of the main count. Side counting them is also is for other reasons. Since hi LO and halves indexes are so absolutely close, as to suggest that they are identical, certain situations in halves make it nice to have a 9 sidecount, and these situations, for all intents and purposes are when max bets are out.
The purpose is to overide index play when additional info is present - when the big bets are out.
Last edited by Freightman; 06-24-2016 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Add last line
i still believe what ZMF say is true as 7 is great for 14 vs 10 , 8 is for 13 vs 10 and 6 is of course for 15 vs 10,9 all with a high bet out. 9 comes at the end of the list. Ace is no doubt a biggie for insurance and some doubling and splitting decision. Just using all these info for the decision over ride the normal index is plenty( quite enough for efficiency) .
It's very much the opposite of what you are saying here. First off, "Hi-Lo is all you'll ever need" is a ridiculous statement and there is no one size fits all. To me that is like telling people that a horse and buggy is all they'll ever need so avoid getting a Ford Model T! I use a wide range of side counting techniques. Hi-Lo is all you'll ever need if you are playing low stakes and not many hours, there will be little or no difference. Higher stakes, enough hours, and there is a clear difference between Hi-Lo and more advanced counts. I've played enough hours to know there is a difference.
Hi Tarzan
I'm not trying to add to or renew the old which count is better argument. My understanding according to Norm and Don is that you can't play enough hours in a lifetime to determine that. You can be above or below EV at any point in time but it means nothing. You are where you are but it takes billions of rounds of simulation to determine whether one method is preferable to another. Their comments on this caught my eye and maybe Norm and Don will contribute a little to this discussion.
I respect your abilities and was just wondering what your thoughts are on this?
Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson
Real world isnt a sim. Is your deck estimation in a shoe game to the exact card? Is your ace side count estimation of 1/4 deck to the exact card. If it isnt, you're getting the same EV. Keep in mind, im talking about 6-8 deck games, highly dealt pitch game are a different story. Delusional people i swear. I wish we could do a case study. Both play 1872 hours a year (36 hours a week) Hi Lo vs RPC vs Halves vs HiOPT II ASC. I bet you Hilo comes out on top or that everyone is very close to each other. The count you use is the least significant thing someone can worry about. Ill probably have the chance of counting two shoes simultaneously a week which would more than make up the difference of a higher count counting 1 table.
Just disregard these people. They talk about hundreds of side counts and then hit positive variance and think it's their super count. If you're playing shoe games with 100s of side counts, the lack of frequency of surplus and deficits in card denominations such as depleted 4s or 5s or 6s or a surplus of 4's, 5s, and 6s for example just wont be enough in the long run to make what they're doing even worth a damn. You might get a meaningful deficit or surplus to make a correct decision maybe once every 100 shoes and then you still wont be guaranteed to win that hand. Just isn't worth it. These people chasing pennies, when they should be chasing dollars. Delusional sim minded people.
Highly dealt pitch game different story. But these guys advocating 100s of side counts dont play highly dealt pitch games, they are playing 6-8 deck avg pen shoe games. And if I remember clearly, Tarzan plays in AC and strictly shoe games LOL
Some of the side counters seem to think their system is invincible, telling stories of how they rarely lose. Bullshit. To achieve what they claim would indicate a double digit advantage. None of these proponents can even identify what their advantage is. I've asked many times for that info, a simple number. The replies I have gotten is paragraphs stating why it must work better than anything else. No number, just talk. It is possible to achieve a double digit advantage in blackjack, only that technique (HC) doesn't involve counting at all.
What I am asking, indeed, what I am demanding, is that the side counters show either a mathematically reproducible, sound method that identifies their advantage or better yet their SCORE. I would like to see real data, not just bullshit.
I'm waiting.
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