Learning about side counts

[Villiam]

Hey ya'll. I'm a Hi Lo player who plays predominately 6 decks that is looking to expand his counting knowledge.

I'm curious about side counts: Specifically ASC and 9SC... Keep in mind my naivete, can you guys either explain on your own how you run your side count in your head or on chips (or knuckles lines, Mr. Wolf) or direct me to good resources that I can access without shopping amazon for books? And more importantly how does your side count become useful for you in terms of info gained and bet sizing?

I know that we might argue about the worth of a given side count given my counting system and game preference. If you would like to suggest I learn something other than Hi Lo I'm very interested in your input.

And can I also just say thank you? To everyone here who has stuff to say, however hard to swallow, Thank YOU, it's opening up my game a ton.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"I'm curious about side counts: Specifically ASC and 9SC"

Of course I certainly suggest that you learn a stronger count; Hi-Opt II being the best for you.

If you want to learn about Side-Counts you MUST read The Theory of Blackjack, 5th or 6th ed.

The chapter on "Multi-Parameter Counts" will teach you that Side-Counting 9's is a waste of time.

The Aces of course are crucial, and (in "pitch games) I side-count 7's for boosted Playing Efficiency.

The Aces improve P.E. for certain hand matchups, but are very important for accurate Bet Sizing.

[Freightman]

The chapter on "Multi-Parameter Counts" will teach you that Side-Counting 9's is a waste of time.

It depends on what you're looking for. As well, certain sude counts are more suited for specific systems.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... certain sude counts are more suited for specific systems."

"I beg to differ." NINES (9's) can be included in some Level 2
(and higher level) counts, e.g. A.O. II
but for side counting it is a very low priority.
As was clearly shown by Dr. Griffin, after the crucial Aces,

the ranks worth side-counting are, (in respective order),
the 7, the 8, and the 6. By the time that the player gets
to 9's "diminishing returns" sets in, rendering it a virtually
complete waste of effort.

[Freightman]

"I beg to differ." NINES (9's) can be included in some Level 2 (and higher level) counts, e.g. A.O. II

but for side counting it is a very low priority. As was clearly shown by Dr. Griffin, after the crucial Aces,

the ranks worth side-counting are, (in respective order), the 7, the 8, and the 6. By the time that the

player gets to 9's "diminishing returns" sets in, rendering it a virtually complete waste of effort.

And yet, I've done exceptionally with it, though the occurrence of its need is quite limited. It works well with my halves count for 1 specific situation, and is a slighter influence in a secondary situation.

Having said that, a recent thread has put the idea in my head to side count the insurance 10 count.. Wheather I can do it though remains to be seen.

I'm sure glad I reread that - almost referred to it as the insurance 19 count

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... I've done exceptionally with it."

Halves does NOT side-count Nines (9's)

[Freightman]

Halves does NOT side-count Nines (9's)

True, absolutely - it's part of the main count. Side counting them is also is for other reasons. Since hi LO and halves indexes are so absolutely close, as to suggest that they are identical, certain situations in halves make it nice to have a 9 sidecount, and these situations, for all intents and purposes are when max bets are out.

The purpose is to overide index play when additional info is present - when the big bets are out.

[Villiam]

Of course I certainly suggest that you learn a stronger count; Hi-Opt II being the best for you.

If you want to learn about Side-Counts you MUST read The Theory of Blackjack, 5th or 6th ed.

The chapter on "Multi-Parameter Counts" will teach you that Side-Counting 9's is a waste of time.

The Aces of course are crucial, and (in "pitch games) I side-count 7's for boosted Playing Efficiency.

The Aces improve P.E. for certain hand matchups, but are very important for accurate Bet Sizing.

Book ordered.

[Three]

The gain from side counting is proportional to the PE of the main count. If you want to side count you should probably consider starting with a strong ace neutral playing count or at least an ace neutral playing count. Well most ace neutral playing counts are strong playing counts so I guess the original statement is redundant.

[seriousplayer]

The gain from side counting is proportional to the PE of the main count. If you want to side count you should probably consider starting with a strong ace neutral playing count or at least an ace neutral playing count. Well most ace neutral playing counts are strong playing counts so I guess the original statement is redundant.

Where is there further research or reading about side counting aces in neutral counts? I want to know how to apply side counting aces to all ace neutral playing whether is a balanced count system or unbalanced count system but I have trouble find that information.

[Dog Hand]

Where is there further research or reading about side counting aces in neutral counts? I want to know how to apply side counting aces to all ace neutral playing whether is a balanced count system or unbalanced count system but I have trouble find that information.

seriousplayer,

Bryce Carlson, in Blackjack for Blood, discusses the advantages of sidecounting Aces in the balanced, ace-neutral Advanced Omega II (AOII) system.

Even if you don't plan to use AOII, the book is still quite a valuable resource, despite its dated betting advice.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

[seriousplayer]

seriousplayer,

Bryce Carlson, in Blackjack for Blood, discusses the advantages of sidecounting Aces in the balanced, ace-neutral Advanced Omega II (AOII) system.

Even if you don't plan to use AOII, the book is still quite a valuable resource, despite its dated betting advice.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Thank you dog hand for responding to my post. What I am looking for is a universal side counting Ace method that can be apply to all balanced and unbalanced counts.

[Boz]

Hey ya'll. I'm a Hi Lo player who plays predominately 6 decks that is looking to expand his counting knowledge.

I'm curious about side counts: Specifically ASC and 9SC... Keep in mind my naivete, can you guys either explain on your own how you run your side count in your head or on chips (or knuckles lines, Mr. Wolf) or direct me to good resources that I can access without shopping amazon for books? And more importantly how does your side count become useful for you in terms of info gained and bet sizing?

I know that we might argue about the worth of a given side count given my counting system and game preference. If you would like to suggest I learn something other than Hi Lo I'm very interested in your input.

And can I also just say thank you? To everyone here who has stuff to say, however hard to swallow, Thank YOU, it's opening up my game a ton.

I'd strongly discourage side counting with Hi-Lo. It makes no sense and is a waste of time and energy. I'm sure it's happened, but I've never heard of anyone using mutliparameter strategies while using hi-lo. The better course is something along the lines of what Flash suggested.

Hi-Lo's main weakness is over-counting the deuce and under-counting the 7. I noticed this, and changed my count to the CR Count, which is variant of RPC, the same as FELT is a variant of RPC. One of these provides a small, but significant gain over hi-lo.

The other main place to improve your count is switching to an ace neutral count. That's not the same thing as side-counting aces in hi-lo.