Halves + Ten Count

[LoneWoLF]

I don't know a whole lot about the insurance 10 count along with halves - I think it can be done, but it would almost certainly slow the game down. Think of it this way. At the same time you are keeping a perfect halves count (with 1 side of your brain), you are simultaneously, or almost so, counting exact number if cards dealt, also accounting for number of 10's dealt on the other side of your brain.

You need a short cut on the insurance count, keeping the integrity of the tag values. Try also INITIALLY counting faces as +1.

All Cards dealt X 1 - face cards x3 , enter the rest of your formula. Slight difference, same result, a tad shorter. Food for thought.

Well the way I originally did it was by using the joint lines on my fingers. Coincidentally each hand has 16 joint marks(4 joint marks per finger) so using two hands you would have 32, which is just what you need to compute when to take insurance on an 8 deck game, ie. 4*8(number of decks) = 32. Much better would be the six deck game as you can stop at 24 and anything at or above you insure.

The way I grouped the cards was use my main count until the end of the round and then count all the cards on the table and subtract two for every ten I saw. This was much easier heads up but I'm having a problem doing it with multiple players at the table and the dealer discards cards 'during' the round, as I would then have to make a mental note that a couple cards already left the table.

[stopgambling]

Some dealers are so fast that they would pull all 2-3 and sometimes 4 cards when it's their turn to take cards in very little time to thwart you . While i was using hi lo i have to strained against these dealers , cause i don't train very hard even though i played quite a bit . Imagined with a complicated count with side counts , i would say you have a mighty fine challenge going. That is against my belief of doing counting/AP as i am going more for the money ,less for the challenge.

[Villiam]

oh yeah. well duh. i thought that's what you meant. I don't have that problem very much. But it can be an issue. I'm actually relearning deep negatives just in case bc I found a table I can spread more on given my bankroll.

[stopgambling]

I have seen / played against people that are teamed up and just plain have a better act . These people will beat me most of any solo players with a lot of people using complicated super count in a challenge . often they get many favorable out comes in misdeal disputes ,errors .etc .. lower minimum when everyone else get the higher minimum at peak hours , private table ,selected dealers ( pen),.....i don't need to go on

[All Clear]

Im looking to add the ten count/archer count to my game while using halves for betting. The ten count will be used for perfect insurance and for playing decisions. This should bring my stats to .99 BC, .61 PE, and 1.0 IC. Complexity is not a problem as i've done this in the past but then decided to not go through with it as I only had practice heads up. Does anyone know where I can find the indicies for the ten count. Im looking specifically for the archer ten count where the tags are +1 for every card and 10s being -2.

TIA

Hi LoneWolf,

I currently use an ace side count along with a main count for a blackjack variant (a game in which using a side count is definitely worth it....), but use Halves (as you do) for standard shoe blackjack. Every now and then, I think of how I can possibly improve with a side count for BJ, but enough people have convinced me that an Ace side count (for shoe blackjack games) isn't worth it. Have you done the simulations- is there a significant increase in win rate by using the ten count / archer count? Or even a smallish increase in win rate might be enough....

Please follow up with what you find. I'll be following the thread. :-)

[Freightman]

Hi LoneWolf,

I currently use an ace side count along with a main count for a blackjack variant (a game in which using a side count is definitely worth it....), but use Halves (as you do) for standard shoe blackjack. Every now and then, I think of how I can possibly improve with a side count for BJ, but enough people have convinced me that an Ace side count (for shoe blackjack games) isn't worth it. Have you done the simulations- is there a significant increase in win rate by using the ten count / archer count? Or even a smallish increase in win rate might be enough....

Please follow up with what you find. I'll be following the thread. :-)

Insurance, when properly taken, is by far your most valuable index play. What I don't know, is the difference between taking insurance at index vs
Tweak 1. Accounting for surplus or deficit of 9's using halves.
Tweak 2. Accounting for surplus or deficit of intermediates
Tweak 3. Insurance 10 count.

If tweak 3 adds 10% to the regular value of insurance, I would view that as pretty significant. Measured against hard gains would be the soft cost of potentially slower play.

[LoneWoLF]

Insurance, when properly taken, is by far your most valuable index play. What I don't know, is the difference between taking insurance at index vs
Tweak 1. Accounting for surplus or deficit of 9's using halves.
Tweak 2. Accounting for surplus or deficit of intermediates
Tweak 3. Insurance 10 count.

If tweak 3 adds 10% to the regular value of insurance, I would view that as pretty significant. Measured against hard gains would be the soft cost of potentially slower play.

If I remember correctly, some people have done sims in the past and the gain wasnt that much. But would be nice if someone tackled this and posted the results. Im not so much interested in win rate, but what it would do to the SCORE and the variance per hour.

[Finrod]

I am a proficient Halves counter and have given the thought of adding the Ten Count for insurance a lot of consideration. I have practiced it a lot and am convinced it is simple to add. But I have run the sims on CVCX/CVData and have also convinced myself it is not worth the effort. I was surprised but I am convinced now. We all are familiar with taking insurance only to have another ace underneath. It is frustrating and the Ten Count would likely reduce the frequency of that. But the gain in the end is very small. Sometimes I practice the skill purely for "mental masturbation" as RWM would call it. But I do not plan to implement in a casino.

[Gramazeka]

Im looking to add the ten count/archer count to my game while using halves for betting. The ten count will be used for perfect insurance and for playing decisions. This should bring my stats to .99 BC, .61 PE, and 1.0 IC. Complexity is not a problem as i've done this in the past but then decided to not go through with it as I only had practice heads up. Does anyone know where I can find the indicies for the ten count. Im looking specifically for the archer ten count where the tags are +1 for every card and 10s being -2.

TIA

This is the best mix count for 2 player. My team used Double Halves + Ten count. Very low St Dev.

[LoneWoLF]

I got an interesting idea of what to do now regarding keeping both counts. What if I did this?

What If I just side counted the tens with my fingers. Also we know there are 52 cards in a deck, so what we do when its time for insurance is add up all the tens * -2. Then take the decks in the discard play and multiple by 52. Then take that number and subtract the value of tens played after multiplying by 2. if the number is greater than or equal to 4 * number of decks you insure.

What you guys think?

To me this seems really easy to do.

[Freightman]

I got an interesting idea of what to do now regarding keeping both counts. What if I did this?

What If I just side counted the tens with my fingers. Also we know there are 52 cards in a deck, so what we do when its time for insurance is add up all the tens * -2. Then take the decks in the discard play and multiple by 52. Then take that number and subtract the value of tens played after multiplying by 2. if the number is greater than or equal to 4 * number of decks you insure.

What you guys think?

To me this seems really easy to do.

Lone awolf
Are your deck estimation skills that good that you can calculate accurately the proper pivot point at which to take insurance? I doubt it. Why not do it the way it should be done, or my prior suggestion, which comes to the same thing, count all cards as +1, subtracting 10 value cards x-3.

Gramazeka
Just to be clear, your doubling halves values and then dividing by 2? Wouldn't that slow down the calculation process? Also, do you have a clear picture of additional accuracy of insuring halves 6d shoe using 10 count vs. true +3.2. I'm giving this some serious thought

[LoneWoLF]

The purpose is only to make a decision when you see An Ace up right? So you are making this decision maybe 6 times per shoe? Why not just count them and deck estimate when you face an Ace?

I said thats what i was going to do lol

[Gramazeka]

Lone awolf
Are your deck estimation skills that good that you can calculate accurately the proper pivot point at which to take insurance? I doubt it. Why not do it the way it should be done, or my prior suggestion, which comes to the same thing, count all cards as +1, subtracting 10 value cards x-3.

Gramazeka
Just to be clear, your doubling halves values and then dividing by 2? Wouldn't that slow down the calculation process? Also, do you have a clear picture of additional accuracy of insuring halves 6d shoe using 10 count vs. true +3.2. I'm giving this some serious thought

Double Halves have double index for Halves and standart calculation.