MO Gaming Rule

**Ryemo** · 06-21-2016, 06:02 PM

Boz,

How much does this dead horse need to be beaten? The law looks pretty clear. It states that a patron cannot be excluded from any card game unless they're cheating or being disruptive. It then states that card counting isn't cheating. What else needs to be said?!?

Yes, if you get caught counting, the casino may look for other reasons to kick you out. So it's important that you keep to yourself as much as possible when you're busy working. But I think the law couldn't be stated any clearer. So why are we still talking about this???

**Three** · 06-21-2016, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ryemo

Yes, if you get caught counting, the casino may look for other reasons to kick you out.

Typically when the casinos can't bar they just make it so you don't want to play in the first place. If you are dumb enough to lose money so you can play without an advantage rather than go somewhere else and play with an advantage they are happy to take your money. Why would they need to bar you when all they need to do is flat bet you or shuffle after every hand? 100% effective at either getting you to leave on your own accord or getting your money by making you play at a disadvantage. If the casinos are isolated you are not likely to return.

**Norm** · 06-21-2016, 06:51 PM

Wikipedia has an article on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipe..._horse_carcass

**Barney112** · 06-21-2016, 08:01 PM

Me living in mo I do appreciate this post in very helpful to a lot of this thanks Boz

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**Boz** · 06-21-2016, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Barney112

Me living in mo I do appreciate this post in very helpful to a lot of this thanks Boz

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You're welcome. Thank you, Barney.

**Villiam** · 06-21-2016, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

No, they are not completely powerless. They can use the same counter measures used by other such states.

So, could repeated counter measures of a possibly extreme measure ever be construed as barring ya think? Or will the casinos be able to find a balance where everyone's allowed but some are effectively backed off from playing?

Besides the ace sequencer (boz), what about a 6 deck wonger? No mid shoe entry for anyone now? CSMs everywhere?

I'm sorry if I'm being redundant but I got tired of following the previous bicker thread on it. I really wonder if there could be a perfect anarchic balance where both no one could sue and not every AP in the country would be moving there to take them out...

**Villiam** · 06-21-2016, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Typically when the casinos can't bar they just make it so you don't want to play in the first place. If you are dumb enough to lose money so you can play without an advantage rather than go somewhere else and play with an advantage they are happy to take your money. Why would they need to bar you when all they need to do is flat bet you or shuffle after every hand? 100% effective at either getting you to leave on your own accord or getting your money by making you play at a disadvantage. If the casinos are isolated you are not likely to return.

Can you be flat bet in MO? Would that violate a law somewhere or be impractical? Seems like it would go against the implied intent of the law we are talking about now wouldn't it? I'm confused, I thought you couldn't be barred from advantage play...

**Barney112** · 06-22-2016, 06:50 AM

Yes you can flat bet ... they would just take countermeasures I've seen them cut 10 or 15 cards from the shoes and you git one to two hand a shoe that it . But it has to be really bad for them to take these measures from what I seen

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**Ryemo** · 06-22-2016, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Barney112

Yes you can flat bet ... they would just take countermeasures I've seen them cut 10 or 15 cards from the shoes and you git one to two hand a shoe that it . But it has to be really bad for them to take these measures from what I seen

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I've never seen them flat bet anyone. I don't think they're allowed to do that, otherwise I would have been flat-betted A LONG time ago. I can take a look at the gaming commission rules again to confirm though. These are the counter-measures that have been taken against me in MO:

1) Half shoe on 6D.
2) Preferential Shuffle. Especially if the half shoe doesn't deter you right away.
3) Quarter Deck on DD. They were place the cut card at the 25% point or less.
4) 2 Rounds (typically on DD). They'll deal you two rounds, then shuffle.
5) Table Max Decrease - They will lower table max from $1,000 to $50 for example.

I've been counter-measured dozens of times in St Louis and KC, as I am very active in MO. Not as active as I used to be though, because I'm too well recognized now. I'm currently trying to give these stores some time to forget me (if that ever happens). It eventually got to the point where I would be recognized right away and wouldn't even be able to play more than one shoe without counter-measures, so I've slowed down at my home-base now. I'm traveling more often now in order to play.

**mcallister3200** · 06-22-2016, 08:39 AM

I've seen table min/max changed to 100-100 in STL. I'd define that as a flat bet.

**Ryemo** · 06-22-2016, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by mcallister3200

I've seen table min/max changed to 100-100 in STL. I'd define that as a flat bet.

Yes, they can certainly do that. I just don't think they can single one person out and tell him/her they can only flat bet. But they can/will change table min/max.

**Villiam** · 06-22-2016, 01:09 PM

So I could go to another table.

I think people find Boz's argument annoying bc the person behind is annoying instead of looking at something else.

Imagine Boz running around these casinos as an annoying, "disruptive" counter, one that just moves to another table he's been side counting everytime his table gets changed to 100/100... I could see an annoying counter quickly becoming disruptive because of the casino's own inability to handle his continuing action.

**Three** · 06-22-2016, 01:17 PM

Unless you are in Vegas or a few other destinations casinos don't tend to blackbook you unless you are a real recurring pain. What you describe is someone trying to get in the blackball by a casino that rarely makes entries.In Vegas you don't just have to worry about security but OSN operatives that rove around to the counter traps and enter your info on their own. They may follow you to get your name if the casino doesn't have it. They are known by employees and have their allies so it isn't too hard for them to find out who you are to add to the photos taken of you. You have to remember these guys aren't employed by the casinos and are deceives so they may stick with you as long as it takes to get the info they want. Often known team players get a list of known associates. Anyway the point is nothing good comes from trying to go back or trying to play when you are unwelcome. If you are in the book already I guess you have nothing to lose other than an update on your most recent appearances.