Question for Norm About Modern Blackjack

**Cohiba** · 06-06-2016, 07:12 PM

Norm - was reading Chapter 18 where you discussed indices for the FELT Count in the Spanish game. Was wondering if there is a section in the book where you showed SCORES for this count/game? I looked but didnt see anything. Was interested in how well it would compare to Kat's Hi/Lo count.

Thanks

Cohiba

**Norm** · 06-07-2016, 03:47 AM

Don't think so. I wasn't trying to create a better count for SP21. The point of the chapter is to provide SP21 indices for people that happen to use FELT, as well as hole-carding, partial hole-carding, and next-carding tables for SP21 which I don't believe exist anywhere else.

**Three** · 06-07-2016, 05:45 AM

Kat's Hilo is really weak for SP21. I only have Norm's free book what is his Felt count for SP21?

**davethebuilder** · 06-07-2016, 06:08 AM

It is not that weak if you know how to use it. When she was playing she used proportional betting rather capping at a certain true count. She spread 80-1 with 90% pen at a time when casinos believed SP21 and Pontoon were unbeatable. She did develop a Level 2 count which was more powerful but it has never been published. She also developed and applied other playing strategies that increased her advantage but these too have never been published.

**Tarzan** · 06-07-2016, 06:14 AM

It's Felt index tables and then some Spanish 21 hole carding tables.

**Three** · 06-07-2016, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by davethebuilder

It is not that weak if you know how to use it. When she was playing she used proportional betting rather capping at a certain true count. She spread 80-1 with 90% pen at a time when casinos believed SP21 and Pontoon were unbeatable. She did develop a Level 2 count which was more powerful but it has never been published. She also developed and applied other playing strategies that increased her advantage but these too have never been published.

I was saying relative to other counts. With 90% pen and no heat for an 80:1 spread and no top bet , straight kelly betting, it may make money but what count wouldn't. If all you Aussie's employees her system no wonder there is no playable games left. If you had used a stronger system and played a more polite game you could probably still be killing it all over Australia with no heat. She killed her own golden goose. Greedy AP's are why it is so hard to find great games in the casino. The ones that are left are secrets and protected from the greedy by the staff. Most will let someone playing politely play for a long long time. Most never get the tap if they are smart about how they attack the games. The point being if you want to have any kind of longevity in a game that is not widely offered you need a stronger system.

**Norm** · 06-07-2016, 06:43 AM

Her original system was far more complex. I probably still have it around somewhere.

**davethebuilder** · 06-07-2016, 06:47 AM

I am aware of that but T3 is correct in saying that the book had a profound impact on Pontoon in this country and probably on SP21 in the US as well. That being said there are still opportunities here.

**Norm** · 06-07-2016, 07:14 AM

The impact in Australia was indeed profound for a few reasons. First, there aren't as many casinos. Secondly, the casinos took note of her consistent wins well before the book was published and called in MB, an Aussie casino consultant (and ex-AP). Unable to figure out how she was beating the game so soundly, he had someone approach her as a fellow AP, gain her confidence, and obtain a copy of an early manuscript.

**Three** · 06-07-2016, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Norm

Her original system was far more complex. I probably still have it around somewhere.

I have a pretty good idea of how she actually played and it is no surprise she decided to withhold some information. After reading between the lines on comments people in the know behind the scenes with Kat I have found things that more than double EV without changing variance much at all. This more than quadruples SCORE. You have to use the mantra keep it as complicated as possible. Those from the Keep It Simple Stupid camp need to do a 180 for this game. I don't want to give away any sensitive info but think of every way you could use that advice. You will figure it out. I mean every way. The one it actually is will really surprise you. All the other things toward complexity will reap large gains as well.

I should add the caveat that I haven't analyzed pontoon but rather its American cousins.

**Norm** · 06-07-2016, 08:08 AM

She didn't exactly "withhold" info. I just suggested that her original system needed simplification for mere mortals to use.

In any case, likely the most important aspect of the book is why SP21 can be beaten.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 06-07-2016, 04:25 PM

An innumerate illiterate narcoleptic alcoholic desert nomad
could beat this game with the published ultra-simple count
IF the betting spread is aggressively wide enough.

When I was first introduced to the game (in 2009 I believe),
the AP (who posts here at times) who introduced me to the
game (literally) showed me how he could spread from $10 to
2 X $500. I watched this for a few shoes and he cashed out
several 'K' wealthier, if memory serves.

In recent years, surveillance minions have payed closer attention
although one can still spread $15 to 2 X $250 without too much
scrutiny.

Of importance for newbies to know:

If you are backed off as a BJ Card Counter you WILL be 86'd
from the Spanish21 tables as well.

Of course, "cumulative win" is still an ever-present issue.

**davethebuilder** · 06-07-2016, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

The impact in Australia was indeed profound for a few reasons. First, there aren't as many casinos. Secondly, the casinos took note of her consistent wins well before the book was published and called in MB, an Aussie casino consultant (and ex-AP). Unable to figure out how she was beating the game so soundly, he had someone approach her as a fellow AP, gain her confidence, and obtain a copy of an early manuscript.

MB was involved in the introduction of CSM's in this country particularly at Crown at a time when the main floors were changing over from shoes. Part of the reason is casinos here can only choose their customers in the VIP areas.