I've recently started actually playing at my local casino, and, as it's the most convenient location for me by a wide margin, keeping heat down is a priority for me. Based on my pre-playing readings, it seems quite a few community members play without the 10s v 6 and 10s v 5 indices to help avoid detection. Does the same level of heat accompany doubling a soft 20 into 6 or 5? Does anyone who plays one of the pairs not play the other? Why? Thanks for your thoughts.
Only very bad, or very good players will make either of those plays. If you're an idiot, they'll know. If you're a good player, they'll know. The house will act according to their perception - which means nothing uf you're an idiot, and an imminent backoff if you're not.Originally Posted by Chief
If it's a local house, forget it - if you have no intentions of returning anytime soon, then go for it - but make sure that he wager is commensurate with the risk, which means a meaningful max bet.
No, the same level of heat does not accompany doubling a soft 20. Doubling a soft 20 occurs much less often than a 10 split, so there are far less opportunities to draw ire. Splitting 10s is the trademark of a counter, not doubling a soft 20. It's perceived as different. Taking a maximum of one card on a double is less disturbing to your average ploppy than taking two or more cards on a series of splits. I don't split 10s, but I still occasionally double the 20. This is in no way meant to mislead you into believing that this play won't draw heat, that it wouldn't be immediately recognized, or that it is good idea to do this at a local place you plan to play at on a regular basis.
Some may not split against 5s but would against a 6, theoretically. Because of the heat inherent in splitting, they may set artificially high indices for each play. I, for example, would never split against a deuce regardless of the count. Although I broke my rule once, I generally applied that to the 3 as well. Currently, I still consider the 6 and my surroundings, but generally the 4 and 5 opportunities don't even register.
Just split tens, double soft 20, do everything you need to do. Heat is over rated. Most of these floor guys are clueless. Unless its a really small store with not many people playing and you're sagging around the pit, then don't do it. I literally back count 8 hrs straight at my store, split tens, double soft 19 and soft 20 and other power plays. Not using these moves is costing you some severe EV. These are powerful plays when they arise.
The way I see it, if you're so worried about heat you already messed up, either by playing sweaty stores or having pit personnel on to you. Find a tolerant store or do some hit and run 1 hour each store and move. Also try to have a low spread. You can do that by backcounting. They might miss you back counting and then think you're only using a 1-2 or 1-3 spread and immediately write you off that you're not a threat. Also they might be just stupid to not even realize that you don't need a spread to win as long as you backcount.
Yeah, it's pretty horrible with or without this phantom caveat. The OP didn't ask about backcounting or whether he should ignore heat, so it's not even on point and it's confusing. None of your ancillary advice applies to someone playing at his home store who doesn't have a variety of stores. But don't take my word, everyone in the forum knows heat is an important consideration. Let them rebut.
Last edited by Boz; 05-30-2016 at 11:49 PM.
I guess for a home store, i can see what you're saying and hit and run wouldnt be optimal since it IS your home store. But at least for me, all i do is backcount at my home stores and use every index possible that i want and i've never gotten backed off. Guess playing unrated and playing within tolerance levels has kept me from getting the tap. To be fair i've only played about 200 hours since i raise my bets to a decent bet size so we will see how it goes. The otehr 150 hours this year was at a lower bet size.
I played for a long time without cover at my original home store. Eventually everyone knew I was counting. Eventually people started openly talking about it. Still no heat; most everyone liked me and nothing changed about my patterns since I first began as a complete non-threat. But my BR climbed and so did my bets, incrementally. And a few people late to the party noticed and were resentful. That was the beginning of the end, after nearly 2000 hours.
Point being, IF your advice is applicable to yourself, it is certainly the exception and not the rule. And I got a feeling you're like I was when I was green, and you're not fully appreciating the fact that everything good comes to an end--and your own brazen actions are going to hasten the coming of that end.
Last edited by Boz; 05-31-2016 at 01:53 AM.
Yeah, and LW should play the way he sees fit. I played similarly at the start, and for the most part, I don't regret ignoring most of the heat, most of the time. But that's hardly a conventional or recommended view. It's easy for red-chippers to wrongly think heat is "overrated" as they can sometimes play with some degree of impunity. The OP shouldn't be advised to do such things, especially when that wasn't his question; and his bet level, among other critical factors, is indeterminate. Further, splitting 10s is going to draw ire regardless; if he's not an idiot, he gave himself away so blatantly that often dumb ploppies will notice. The OP appears more concerned about this than with arguing the finer points.
Last edited by Boz; 05-31-2016 at 02:56 AM.
Doubling a soft 20 is much more acceptable from a heat and ploppy-ire viewpoint than splitting 10s. Easy to justify doubling a soft 20 against 5 or 6. I've done it many times. It's an aggressive play and I've actually received some respectful ploppy feedback when I did it like: "Wow, I never considered that play - pretty slick!" It's a little trickier when the soft 20 is against 2-4.
Splitting 10s is a notorious play and indicates either a ploppy with a loose screw or a card counter in slash and burn mode.
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