Absent heat,is the 6 deck game ever better?

[Boz]

If you said you'd play the 6D game, you are mistaken.

No, I'm not mistaken. I just called myself on the phone and asked what I'd do to make sure I understood correctly. I'd probably play the 6D. I've listed numerous reasons why, and all without committing to saying either game is definitely better. I don't know how to be clearer.

Your sim for the DD is wrong, you can't double soft hands in 9-11. Your sim for 6D ignores the fact that some us have been assuming the shoe has surrender. The SCORE in that game is 48, not 28. But that doesn't really matter that much. Because unless I have a genuine concern that doesn't involve splitting hairs, I don't turn to a sim--since my table condition assessing skills are stronger than my sim writing skills.

Like I said, have fun playing DD with bad rules and your 5 ploppy friends. I'll be playing at the shoe game with one ploppy card eater and my BPH. If you need a sim to tell you things you should be able to eyeball, then you better be a pro with the sim software.

[Bodarc]

I still lean towards the shoe game based on his example. I can wong, it's prob got a lower minimum, there's prob less people at the table, I'm prob getting more hands, it prob has surrender if the DD has 75% pen. I'm also going to ignore his 1-12 and go 1-50. You guys go play your 1-6 DD with 5 ploppies.

Please tell me where in the question you saw all of these "Probablies"?? You sound like an archeologist.

[Boz]

Please tell me where in the question you saw all of these "Probablies"?? You sound like an archeologist.

I didn't. But I've never seen 75% pen for DD and then awful shoe rules throughout the casino. I'm sure it exists, but I'll just go with probably and list that as an assumption so everyone knows I made that assumption. Where in the question does it exclude what normally happens in a casino and set a meaningful standard to be simmed? Maybe some things that are normal for me are not normal for others, which is why I listed them--although I imagine some things are 'probably' for most everyone. If the shoe didn't have surrender, even though I'd still consider conditions, I'd have leaned towards the DD by default--if that makes you happy.
Archaeologist? Like Jurassic Park? Your guys' jokes, don't go on tour man. Maybe I'm too low-brow or somethin.

[Bodarc]

LOL no biggie Boz.

Take care

[Bodarc]

Your guys' jokes, don't go on tour man.

It wasn't really a joke Boz. If you have ever read an Archeologist's report, and take out all of the "We think that", "It's possible that", "It could be", "Probably", "It appears"...etc etc, you realize they have said nothing.

Take care my friend

[Boz]

It wasn't really a joke Boz. If you have ever read an Archeologist's report, and take out all of the "We think that", "It's possible that", "It could be", "Probably", "It appears"...etc etc, you realize they have said nothing.

Take care my friend

You're no Bosox, but nobody is. You're OK by me, Bodarc. But seriously, this joke isn't funny at all, it's gibberish at this point.

[ZeeBabar]

The DD game is more than twice as good, if you're playing all.

Don

Don, but I don't play all in the 6 deck game, wong out at TC-2 after 2 decks have been played. In positive counts, I switch to 2 hands, drop down to one hand for TC+1 to TC-1, drop out if TC gets worse.

Given the above, is the DD game still better? In the DD game, if you play 2 hands, you have to start with two and one hand has to be twice the minimum.

[Boz]

Don, but I don't play all in the 6 deck game, wong out at TC-2 after 2 decks have been played. In positive counts, I switch to 2 hands, drop down to one hand for TC+1 to TC-1, drop out if TC gets worse.

Given the above, is the DD game still better? In the DD game, if you play 2 hands, you have to start with two and one hand has to be twice the minimum.

Why don't you tell us if the shoe has surrender and RSA, if there's a notch or if the dealers eyeball the penetration, what the minimums are and if this affects your unit size, and if one game is typically more crowded than the other--you know, the things that have been discussed in the thread ad nauseum.

Based on Don's lack of information, then yes, just look at Bodarc's sim.

[ZeeBabar]

For more details of the two games.

DD game. - penn is never less than 75%, often exceeds to 80-85%. 1-6 spread acceptable for most all so not much heat. For regulars like me, even 1-8 is possible. It's $25 min. H-17, double 9-11. Double after splits allowed for 9-11 totals. If you want to play 2 hands, you have to start with 2 hands with one hand twice the minimum ($50). If you drop to one hand, you cannot return to 2 hands. Table is $25-$1000.

6 Deck game is always about 75-80% pen, H-17, no Surrender, otherwise regular rules. Table is Min $10, max $1000.
games are dealt face up, have the side bet poker hand, pays 9-1.

Both games are dealt face up. On average, DD game has 3-4 players and so does the 6 deck game.

i play a 1-6 spread, a super max bet now and then of $200 when I play the DD game. I play all occasionally taking a strategic break in negative counts.

When I play the 6 deck game, I start off the top playing one hand of $20, the other of $10 (one hand has to be twice the minimum $10). In negative counts, I play 1 hand of $10, wong out at TC-2 after 2 decks have been played. I go to 2 hands of $25 each at TC +1 and up to 2 hands of $100 each. So, the spread really is 1-20 or $10-$200.

you have it all. Which is the better game among the two I play?

[Boz]

For more details of the two games.

DD game. - penn is never less than 75%, often exceeds to 80-85%. 1-6 spread acceptable for most all so not much heat. For regulars like me, even 1-8 is possible. It's $25 min. H-17, double 9-11. Double after splits allowed for 9-11 totals. If you want to play 2 hands, you have to start with 2 hands with one hand twice the minimum ($50). If you drop to one hand, you cannot return to 2 hands. Table is $25-$1000.

6 Deck game is always about 75-80% pen, H-17, no Surrender, otherwise regular rules. Table is Min $10, max $1000.
games are dealt face up, have the side bet poker hand, pays 9-1.

Both games are dealt face up. On average, DD game has 3-4 players and so does the 6 deck game.

i play a 1-6 spread, a super max bet now and then of $200 when I play the DD game. I play all occasionally taking a strategic break in negative counts.

When I play the 6 deck game, I start off the top playing one hand of $20, the other of $10 (one hand has to be twice the minimum $10). In negative counts, I play 1 hand of $10, wong out at TC-2 after 2 decks have been played. I go to 2 hands of $25 each at TC +1 and up to 2 hands of $100 each. So, the spread really is 1-20 or $10-$200.

you have it all. Which is the better game among the two I play?

Assuming your ROR is low, it's easily the DD. I'm a convert. Someone tell Bodarc!!!

I'd quit that playing two hands garbage in the shoe off the top. It's useful because it prevents another player from taking that spot in a positive count. That double minimum penalty probably isn't worth it when the table usually isn't full, if we assume no heat. In addition, if you're say a Hi-Lo I18 counter, you may still be at a disadvantage at +1 in a mediocre game, and you're already putting 3-5 units on the felt. You're overbetting in neutral counts, IMO.

[Boz]

How about in the DD game playing straight up - IF you can bet the minimum on each spot? 3 hands?

I never play 3 hands on anything.

I wouldn't start with 2 hands; my understanding is that's only better than one if you bet 75% of your original on each. Since the goal is to bet the minimum, you'd then have to bet around $18 on each--which is below the minimum. Since you aren't allowed to spread to two, I'd play one. But he didn't mention his pattern in DD and there are far better DD players than me here. I'm good in shoes, and his play seems inefficient.

[Boz]

It was more of a hypothetical question. I'd forgot the OP must always stay at either 1 or 2 hands throughout the deck. Every place (to my knowledge) requires double the minimum for 2 hands and 3 to 5 times for 3 hands (and then they 86 you for winning.) But I learned of one place where you can spread (and adjust as often as you wish) at the miminum. I'm thinking there is some value in that for the first hand off the top in a straight up game.. But I haven't ran a sim yet.

To my knowledge, playing two hands off the top can only be valuable if the amount you would normally bet on one hand at a disadvantage is higher than the minimum.

[Boz]

Interesting. I just learned of this information today. My thought is (in SD straight up) it sort of serves as a insurance policy for when the large cards come out early. Otherwise, it's an uphill negative deck battle for the next 5 rounds. Rarely is there a large bet opportunity in the first two, even 3 rounds anyway. Most come is the later stages. i.e. pen is vital.

Don't take my word for it, that's just how I understand it. Norm would obviously be able to clearly explain. So would a few others, I'm sure.

If your goal is to bet the absolute table minimum, I don't see how playing two hands (thus doubling the minimum) is beneficial in a negative count. You're eating low cards. You play less rounds, but you get more bad cards. If you do not want to bet the minimum in negative or neutral counts, then according to some charts I've seen, playing two hands is the way to go--for basically the reasons you outline.