Absent heat,is the 6 deck game ever better?

[Boz]

You guys are nuts. The DD is only clearly better in a play-all situation

The DD game is more than twice as good, if you're playing all.

Don

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXWcqriPvgk

[gutshot]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm going strictly by the SCORE of a play all approach for both games. Sure a 1-30 spread beats a 1-6 spread for the same game. Even a ploppy could deduce that.

Using ONLY the information provided and not counting ANY other factors, DD is the far better game at first glance.

Yeah, that's wrong. So you're saying I can spread 1-30 on the DD game and it wouldn't beat the EV/SCORE of a 1-6 spread on the DD game? You might wanna run those numbers... =P.

HE isn't all that different... You're frequencies for good counts are better in 2D, especially with good PEN. I'd take the DD game for sure, unless you have real heat considerations.

For my opinion, at that point, even if the scores were near even (or even if the DD game SCORE was a bit higher but had heat considerations), I'd take the game with 0 heat. To me heat is the most important playing factor... After all, if you can't play the game, then who cares how good the game is. Also, if you have NO heat at the 6D game, I'd jack my spread up a bit more to like 1-20.

[Boz]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm going strictly by the SCORE of a play all approach for both games. Sure a 1-30 spread beats a 1-6 spread for the same game. Even a ploppy could deduce that.

Using ONLY the information provided and not counting ANY other factors, DD is the far better game at first glance.

DD is obviously better in a play-all, but I can't imagine Zee, as an AP, wouldn't commonly wong with shoe games. I also don't see how analyzing something and leaving out critical variables has much, if any, meaning.

You said that no spread on 6D could beat the 1-6 on DD, not that the 1-12 couldn't. Even if you were looking at it based on the OP's incomplete information, I think then maybe you had a typo or something.

I still lean towards the shoe game based on his example. I can wong, it's prob got a lower minimum, there's prob less people at the table, I'm prob getting more hands, it prob has surrender if the DD has 75% pen. I'm also going to ignore his 1-12 and go 1-50. You guys go play your 1-6 DD with 5 ploppies.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

I'm going to chime in here as I am reasonably certain that the notch on that DD game is set at 70 percent.

Stand back and count the cards used after 3 consecutive shuffles. Take the average. It ought to be 70 or 71 cards.

[gutshot]

I could have had an error. I just ran it real quick. Personally, I would probably take the shoe game if the min is low and I can spread at least 20x with few players. I'm more comfortable playing shoes and have had a lot of success beating them. I go for longevity and playing DD presents problems for that.

DD is obviously better in a play-all, but I can't imagine Zee, as an AP, wouldn't commonly wong with shoe games. I also don't see how analyzing something and leaving out critical variables has much, if any, meaning.

You said that no spread on 6D could beat the 1-6 on DD, not that the 1-12 couldn't. Even if you were looking at it based on the OP's incomplete information, I think then maybe you had a typo or something.

I still lean towards the shoe game based on his example. I can wong, it's prob got a lower minimum, there's prob less people at the table, I'm prob getting more hands, it prob has surrender if the DD has 75% pen. I'm also going to ignore his 1-12 and go 1-50. You guys go play your 1-6 DD with 5 ploppies.

[Romes]

The DD game is more than twice as good, if you're playing all.

Don

By the rules/PEN/score, but not by the HEAT. The game can be 10x as good but it doesn't matter if you can't play it or if it's going to get you hard barred from your casino. Still something to consider.

[Boz]

I'm going to chime in here as I am reasonably certain that the notch on that DD game is set at 70 percent.

Stand back and count the cards used after 3 consecutive shuffles. Take the average. It ought to be 70 or 71 cards.

What notch? He's playing in a casino that will only let him double 9-11 and he doesn't know if they have surrender on their shoe game. I don't think he even knows what country he's in, he's off his meds. How did you divine there's a notch?

[Ryemo]

What notch? He's playing in a casino that will only let him double 9-11 and he doesn't know if they have surrender on their shoe game. I don't think he even knows what country he's in, he's off his meds. How did you divine there's a notch?

Considering this the only game Zee has ever talked about (at least since I've joined the boards), I'm sure ZMF knows where Zee plays. Hell, at this point, I think most people know where Zee plays by now. I can recite by memory the game conditions at his home-base casino and I've never even been there!

[Bigdaddy]

By the rules/PEN/score, but not by the HEAT. The game can be 10x as good but it doesn't matter if you can't play it or if it's going to get you hard barred from your casino. Still something to consider.

Amen bros. I'll take the 8-deck shoe at Margaritaville any day over the DD game at the Luxor. Try to spread 1-6 there and you might last 15 minutes...

[Bodarc]

Ok Guys

The question was "WITHOUT HEAT!!!" so why are you answering a different question?

6D HI-LOW 1-12 spread DOA, DAS, NS SCORE 13.56
6D 1-12 spread NS Wonging at -1 SCORE 28.90

2D 1-6 spread D 9-11 (Including soft hands) SCORE 55.88

If you said you'd play the 6D game, you are mistaken.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

" ... (Including soft hands) ..."

If doubles are restricted that means that there are NO soft doubles permitted.

I assume that you set the parameters for the DD game at H17.

[Bodarc]

yes Zen

I could be off a tad because he wasn't too clear on some points but clearly, the result of the two cases will be the same.

[Jabberwocky]

Regardless of soft dbl restriction - choose DD with deep pen. Of course the heat level is final arbiter.