Absent heat,is the 6 deck game ever better?

**ZeeBabar** · 05-26-2016, 05:19 AM

Hopefully folks don't tell me to look up on CVCX (my computer is packed for a move).

if there is little or no heat, a 6 deck game with H17 standard rules and a DD game, H17, DD 9-11, double after splits allowed, both with same 75% penn, the 6 deck game spread being 1-12 and and DD game spread 1-6, which game is preferable? How high must a 6 deck game spread be to make it a better game than a 1-6 DD game?

**gutshot** · 05-26-2016, 05:32 AM

You can't spread enough to make the 6D game better even with absence of heat.

**Boz** · 05-26-2016, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Hopefully folks don't tell me to look up on CVCX (my computer is packed for a move).

if there is little or no heat, a 6 deck game with H17 standard rules and a DD game, H17, DD 9-11, double after splits allowed, both with same 75% penn, the 6 deck game spread being 1-12 and and DD game spread 1-6, which game is preferable? How high must a 6 deck game spread be to make it a better game than a 1-6 DD game?

Yes. If the 6D game has late surrender, which is arguably fairly standard, it has a lower house edge to overcome.

There's no heat, but you've got a weak spread on the DD with bad rules, whereas you have a standard spread on the standard shoe.

I am more experienced playing shoes. I am used to estimating half decks and I'm not about to change my ways. That extra quarter deck penetration doesn't provide me much unless I think it's the last hand.

You generally can't wong in and out of DD with impunity, wheres that works fine on a shoe.

The table minimums matter and could affect my unit size.

So, yes, the shoe can be better, but it's dependent on the circumstances. I personally would lean toward the shoe based on your example, but the mediocre pen makes me non-committal.

**Boz** · 05-26-2016, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by gutshot

You can't spread enough to make the 6D game better even with absence of heat.

Nonsense.

**stopgambling** · 05-26-2016, 08:22 AM

That shows you know a bit about bj play in real life. you are the boz.

**Goatlife** · 05-26-2016, 08:26 AM

1-6 is not a week spread with deep pen on 2 deck

pick the 2 deck game every time

**Ryemo** · 05-26-2016, 08:29 AM

Zee, how is it that you still need assistance analyzing these two games? These are the only two games you've been playing for the last few years...

**Boz** · 05-26-2016, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by smallcapgrowth

1-6 is not a week spread with deep pen on 2 deck

pick the 2 deck game every time

1-8 is a standard spread on DD without regard to penetration. The DD game has bad rules. Yes, it has good pen. I thought I had addressed a number of variables to help him assess the game, including how much his estimation skills are going to help him take advantage of the pen. Max betting at 6 units in deep pen IS not only weak, it's passive. I'd be trying to sneak a 30 unit bet. In my experience, you don't lower your spread because of good pen...you leave because of bad pen. Whether or not he's making it a camping trip marathon should help determine how 'weak' his spread is, but I assume short sessions as a rule.

**Freightman** · 05-26-2016, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Hopefully folks don't tell me to look up on CVCX (my computer is packed for a move).

if there is little or no heat, a 6 deck game with H17 standard rules and a DD game, H17, DD 9-11, double after splits allowed, both with same 75% penn, the 6 deck game spread being 1-12 and and DD game spread 1-6, which game is preferable? How high must a 6 deck game spread be to make it a better game than a 1-6 DD game?

Oi!

**Romes** · 05-26-2016, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by gutshot

You can't spread enough to make the 6D game better even with absence of heat.

Yeah, that's wrong. So you're saying I can spread 1-30 on the DD game and it wouldn't beat the EV/SCORE of a 1-6 spread on the DD game? You might wanna run those numbers... =P.

HE isn't all that different... You're frequencies for good counts are better in 2D, especially with good PEN. I'd take the DD game for sure, unless you have real heat considerations.

For my opinion, at that point, even if the scores were near even (or even if the DD game SCORE was a bit higher but had heat considerations), I'd take the game with 0 heat. To me heat is the most important playing factor... After all, if you can't play the game, then who cares how good the game is. Also, if you have NO heat at the 6D game, I'd jack my spread up a bit more to like 1-20.

**Freightman** · 05-26-2016, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

That shows you know a bit about bj play in real life. you are the boz.

Nice play on words. Thought that was my domain.

**Boz** · 05-26-2016, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Nice play on words. Thought that was my domain.

I don't get it.

You guys are nuts. The DD is only clearly better in a play-all situation where the units are the same/no partial wonging. Surrender is huge, and so is a 9-11 double restriction. Nothing to a ploppy and not much to a BS player, but that's over 1/3 of percentage point the counter has to account for switching to the DD, less than half of which comes back from the lesser decks.

The empty shoe game is clearly better than the single spot open at the DD. Controlling factors are the circumstances.