Returning dealer errors

**beta** · 05-02-2016, 09:39 PM

One time I got a $600 dealer error while in a high limit pit. Security called 5 minutes later and told the pit boss about it. It was a really obvious error; dealer had K-3-8 and thought she busted (paid a $300 bet instead of taking). The pit boss told me to give back the money. When I hesitated, the dealer just grabbed the chips from my stack. Is that even legal? I thought later, "What would they have done if I lost all my chips before they figured it out?"

I didn't want to protest too much because I had a good relationship with the casino (at the time), and they gave me lots of free stuff. On the other hand, $600 is a lot. Maybe I should have made a stink and asked to see the tape, or maybe I should have protested to a gaming agent (You have that option in any state, right?)

I am trying to figure out now what is the best thing to do in these situations. Maybe if the error is hundreds of dollars the best thing is to color up and run before eye in the sky has time to inform the pit. If you are playing rated, could that hurt your potential to keep getting free stuff? But maybe if the error is less obvious (i.e., dealer accidentally gives you extra black when paying large bet), it's OK to stay because eye in the sky probably would not notice.

What do you think is the best way to handle these situations?

**Stealth** · 05-02-2016, 10:13 PM

Give them the money back for the error.

If they press the issue you will not like the legal outcome.

Move on. quietly.

**Boz** · 05-03-2016, 03:53 AM

Technically, no it's not legal for the dealer to grab your chips out of your stack and put them in his rack. They are not in play and your possession makes you the presumptive owner. But jaywalking is also illegal. Why bother to see the tape? Were you confident it would show other errors in which the dealer wrongfully took your money on a win? Asking to see the tape really is the avenue of the truly innocent. You should have walked out after the overpay. I've always been prepared to argue that any portion the casino wants back must be offset by the amount I tipped; and quite honestly, I've never had big overpays where the dealer wasn't obviously jeopardizing his job in an effort to jockey tips--and I don't leave that table (even if I should). And if I think I'm being hawked on decent sized errors, I give them back and wait for the smaller ones. But other than that and the ability to find mistakes in the house's favor, you had no claim to the money until you were gone. Refusing to comply could be construed as larceny.

Best way to handle it--leave immediately, and IMO, throw out a generous tip.

**Freightman** · 05-03-2016, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Boz

Technically, no it's not legal for the dealer to grab your chips out of your stack and put them in his rack. They are not in play and your possession makes you the presumptive owner. But jaywalking is also illegal. Why bother to see the tape? Were you confident it would show other errors in which the dealer wrongfully took your money on a win? Asking to see the tape really is the avenue of the truly innocent. You should have walked out after the overpay. I've always been prepared to argue that any portion the casino wants back must be offset by the amount I tipped; and quite honestly, I've never had big overpays where the dealer wasn't obviously jeopardizing his job in an effort to jockey tips--and I don't leave that table (even if I should). And if I think I'm being hawked on decent sized errors, I give them back and wait for the smaller ones. But other than that and the ability to find mistakes in the house's favor, you had no claim to the money until you were gone. Refusing to comply could be construed as larceny.

Best way to handle it--leave immediately, and IMO, throw out a generous tip.

As you said, leave right away, but don't throw out the big tip. Firstly, it reeks of collusion which puts the dealers job at risk, and secondly, the house may demand their money back when you return. Item 1 increases the probability of item 2.

**Boz** · 05-03-2016, 09:01 AM

That part is just my opinion, that's why I made sure to put IMO...so don't take that as anything but preference. I never tip immediately following a substantial error, and almost never after a small one. But I do it soon enough so the dealer associates it with the errant hand, Reason I'd say to tip in the situation you describe is because it makes you look innocent and it gives you a basis to argue the amount they want back...ploppies tip when they win, and that is the standard across the board. Now they want to take back the win and keep the tip? I don't think so. They're less likely to even log the matter, and if they do, I very much think you will get your tip back if you fight about it.

It might look like collusion to the casino, but card counting looks like cheating to the casino. If you didn't coordinate with the dealer, you didn't collude, and they know they don't legally have a case. I think you seriously underestimate the number of dealers who purposely put their job at risk to jockey for tips, or sometimes even out of pity for a disabled person. Most of these are veterans who's jobs are relatively secure, and pay very small mistakes infrequently. Like I said, I think tipping reduces the risk they demand the money back because A) you look innocent, and B) you now have a claim on the dealers' tip. You didn't keep all the money.

I am not suggesting in any way my philosophy is correct and others are incorrect, or even that I would apply it in every situation. Do what you are comfortable with...but certainly, I think leaving immediately was the proper move.

**Meistro123** · 05-03-2016, 02:53 PM

the dealer should definitely not be grabbing chips out of your stack. do return the money if it's that session (if it's from last time, demand to see the tape chances are you won't have to pay) but don't just hand it over. say "sure, no problem. How much do I owe?" because this will give them another opportunity to fuck up. they might ask for only $300 back instead of $600 for example.