First post ever but I need some professional advise

**blaze** · 04-01-2016, 07:17 PM

First off Id like to say thanks to Norm and all the super intelligent counters who post on this forum as I love reading what you guys write.

I've been counting for about three years using hi lo. I use indices -5 to 5 on two deck h17 doa nra. I started by wonging into six decks but found because my age its too suspicious and too boring so I found playing two deck all the way through only getting up for fake bathroom runs if the count drops quick and at least three aces come out. I bought cvbj and meant to get cvcx but accidently bought cvdata which is just way over my head at this time. Im trying to find out if im on the wrong path. Im struggling in finding good penetration in two deck. I find most games here locally cut right in half with a notch or just barely past half. I have a few dealers who get sloppy so I do tend to hunt them out. The real question is I want to either move on to a harder count if that penetration is worth it (I need yalls thoughts on that) or should I revert to a six deck game in which I can get around 1.5 to 2 decks cut off at ease. Please only professional thoughts if your one of those ppl who post on here and have never studied the game please go else where as I take BJ serious.

**BJGenius007** · 04-01-2016, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by blaze

First off Id like to say thanks to Norm and all the super intelligent counters who post on this forum as I love reading what you guys write.

I've been counting for about three years using hi lo. I use indices -5 to 5 on two deck h17 doa nra. I started by wonging into six decks but found because my age its too suspicious and too boring so I found playing two deck all the way through only getting up for fake bathroom runs if the count drops quick and at least three aces come out. I bought cvbj and meant to get cvcx but accidently bought cvdata which is just way over my head at this time. Im trying to find out if im on the wrong path. Im struggling in finding good penetration in two deck. I find most games here locally cut right in half with a notch or just barely past half. I have a few dealers who get sloppy so I do tend to hunt them out. The real question is I want to either move on to a harder count if that penetration is worth it (I need yalls thoughts on that) or should I revert to a six deck game in which I can get around 1.5 to 2 decks cut off at ease. Please only professional thoughts if your one of those ppl who post on here and have never studied the game please go else where as I take BJ serious.

Two decks out of six decks is only 67% penetration. It is not good. I will play 75% penetration or better. I think you can find 90%, 85% and 80% penetration 6D game. It is not that hard to find such S17 game in PA.

For your choice of the system, Hi-Lo is OK. You might want to learn more indexes on higher counts.

**Bigdaddy** · 04-02-2016, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by BJGenius007

Two decks out of six decks is only 67% penetration. It is not good. I will play 75% penetration or better. I think you can find 90%, 85% and 80% penetration 6D game. It is not that hard to find such S17 game in PA.

For your choice of the system, Hi-Lo is OK. You might want to learn more indexes on higher counts.

I'm not a pro, but I do play a lot of DD. My thoughts on your situation are as follows:

I agree with BJG's suggestion to learn some higher indexes, especially for DD games where higher counts happen frequently enough to make this worthwhile. So you should know when to double 10 v. 10, split 9s v. 7, stand on 15 v. 9, etc..

50% penetration on DD is lousy, but still playable as long as you don't have crowded table conditions. Hopefully you can play with no more than one other at the table. If you have a crowded table, you're not going to get many opportunities at high counts and you're wasting your time (see recent thread on this subject re: "the rule of 11" in DD games).

Also agree with BJG that if you go to 6-deck, you need at least 75% pen, or you just won't get enough high counts to make it worth your while.

As for your Hi-Lo count method, Oh boy, I'm not going to touch that one...you will find plenty of passionate commentary on this subject throughout this forum. I will only say that whatever counting method you choose, you need to become ridiculously good at it so that nobody would ever pick you off as a counter just by the way you look at the cards. Moving your money with the count is a big-enough tell. You don't need to give them another. Worst case scenario - you want them to think - "ok, so he's moving his money with the count, but I can't believe he's counting.."

**DatabaseGuy** · 04-02-2016, 09:58 PM

What's with you age and why is it too suspicious?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 04-03-2016, 05:18 AM

Try google/translate

**mickeycrimm** · 04-03-2016, 07:28 AM

The first thing you need to know is that Wattemberger is a a self glorified idiot who does everthing he can to run off anyone who would have a different opinion about him. I personally think he is a scumbag piece of shit.I'm a hard ass man, tougher than any punks that travel this piece of shit site. I'll be glad to slap Norm clean into next Tuesday in a straight up fight. But that little bitch don't know how to street fight. Nothing but pure maggot. KewlJ is a a friend of mine. norman the little punk ass, you little maggot can suck my running ass. I don't like when Norm. the little squirt goes on other forums to run other people off. From now on Norman you can suck my dick. . Its the make of a candy ass little bitch. I'll be glad to slap the shit out of you Norm "the *****" of any day.

Don't fuck with me.I'll blow your idiot ass up. I'm a trained outlaw. So go ahead, Norm, you little ***** ************, see if you can push me out, bitch. I'm an old train rider. I'll fuck you up. So go ahead, Norm, you pussified ************. Your name is shit on the internet. You're a punk little weasel bitch. C'mon after me you little coward. Just remember one thing. Man to man I will slap your little punk ass clean into next week. Let's get it on, Norm, you little bitch.

**Freightman** · 04-03-2016, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

The first thing you need to know is that Wattemberger is a a self glorified idiot who does everthing he can to run off anyone who would have a different opinion about him. I personally think he is a scumbag piece of shit.I'm a hard ass man, tougher than any punks that travel this piece of shit site. I'll be glad to slap Norm clean into next Tuesday in a straight up fight. But that little bitch don't know how to street fight. Nothing but pure maggot. KewlJ is a a friend of mine. norman the little punk ass, you little maggot can suck my running ass. I don't like when Norm. the little squirt goes on other forums to run other people off. From now on Norman you can suck my dick. . Its the make of a candy ass little bitch. I'll be glad to slap the shit out of you Norm "the *****" of any day.

Don't fuck with me.I'll blow your idiot ass up. I'm a trained outlaw. So go ahead, Norm, you little ***** ************, see if you can push me out, bitch. I'm an old train rider. I'll fuck you up. So go ahead, Norm, you pussified ************. Your name is shit on the internet. You're a punk little weasel bitch. C'mon after me you little coward. Just remember one thing. Man to man I will slap your little punk ass clean into next week. Let's get it on, Norm, you little bitch.

To subtle. You should try to be more direct and forthcoming in your thoughts and comments in order for members to grasp a better handle on where you stand on the issue.

**Freightman** · 04-03-2016, 07:40 AM

BTW, interesting introductory post.

**Freightman** · 04-03-2016, 07:51 AM

There are those who would argue that the gentle art of persuasion is a lost art. There may well be validity on that particular line of thought.

**Stealth** · 04-03-2016, 07:55 AM

So, Mickey did you have issues with your mother while growing up?

Abusive?

Bullying?

Abandonment?

Never mind, its not worth the time.

**Norm** · 04-03-2016, 08:18 AM

I eat live babies too.

**blaze** · 04-03-2016, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I'm not a pro, but I do play a lot of DD. My thoughts on your situation are as follows:

I agree with BJG's suggestion to learn some higher indexes, especially for DD games where higher counts happen frequently enough to make this worthwhile. So you should know when to double 10 v. 10, split 9s v. 7, stand on 15 v. 9, etc..

50% penetration on DD is lousy, but still playable as long as you don't have crowded table conditions. Hopefully you can play with no more than one other at the table. If you have a crowded table, you're not going to get many opportunities at high counts and you're wasting your time (see recent thread on this subject re: "the rule of 11" in DD games).

Also agree with BJG that if you go to 6-deck, you need at least 75% pen, or you just won't get enough high counts to make it worth your while.

As for your Hi-Lo count method, Oh boy, I'm not going to touch that one...you will find plenty of passionate commentary on this subject throughout this forum. I will only say that whatever counting method you choose, you need to become ridiculously good at it so that nobody would ever pick you off as a counter just by the way you look at the cards. Moving your money with the count is a big-enough tell. You don't need to give them another. Worst case scenario - you want them to think - "ok, so he's moving his money with the count, but I can't believe he's counting.."

Well Im glad I got two decent answers before this post became a drama show. Idk why so many ppl on these forums have to act like children still in school.
Ill stick with my dd games and definitely expand my indices to -10 to 10. Im only 23 databaseguy but look like Im 17 so when I come out the pocket with a few hundred dollars after wonging I just feel like the pit are already checking me out. If yall know any good post on here mainly about dd please let me know

**DatabaseGuy** · 04-03-2016, 10:23 AM

Mi

Originally Posted by blaze

Well Im glad I got two decent answers before this post became a drama show. Idk why so many ppl on these forums have to act like children still in school.
Ill stick with my dd games and definitely expand my indices to -10 to 10. Im only 23 databaseguy but look like Im 17 so when I come out the pocket with a few hundred dollars after wonging I just feel like the pit are already checking me out. If yall know any good post on here mainly about dd please let me know

You need to put an act. In your case, either pass for a drug dealer or a rich kid. The former is easier.

You see a lot of very young gambling addicted ploppies. If you look sharp, clean, smart, poker type, you're going to be flagged as a potential AP.

Remember, they can't really tell for sure. It takes a while for them to be sure you're counting.