Dealing with hostile players

**klove** · 02-27-2016, 02:14 AM

Lately, I've drawn a magnet to some drama with other players at the table.

Recently, I was at a table with one other player that was betting between 100-500 a hand. He had rebought a few times and got into a big 3 way split with 2 double downs when he had his max bet out. I also had a max bet out with A7 vs dealer 2. I put out the chips for doubling down and he started getting livid saying cmon man don't fuck me. Then he starts berating the play telling me I dont know how to play. To try upset him the least I had the dealer put it face down. Dealer hits his 12 for 21 and sweeps the table and reveals my card which happened to be a deuce. I could see the steam coming from his ears and he tells me I cost him 5k and I try remind him I lost the hand to. He kept going on how dumb I was and the dealer is agreeing with him that I should never have doubled. This kind of situation seems to come up quite a bit when we make the correct basic strategy plays that other plays don't understand.

Another recent episode I was playing a quarter shoe game heads up and was on a terror as the count jacked up and won 8 hands in a row. The TC dropped to +2 just as I was stacking chips a very large black man hopped in with 2 hands. I asked him if he would mind waiting as I was on a run and the shoe was almost over. All hell broke loose as he stood up towering over me telling me to mind my own business. I was a bit taken back so I said ok I'll sit out and you can finish the shoe. Things got even more hostile as he said he would also sit out unless I played as we had a little back and forth standoff. I had over 3k in chips in front of me and colored up and left. I had shown my max spread anyways so it was a good time to get out but damn did that intensify in a hurry. In that situation I had over 5k in cash on me and asked for a security escort just to be on the safe side.

Of course this isn't the first times these kinds of things have happened but it is rare to encounter hostile players at the table. Every time its uncomfortable and wondering how others deal with situations like these?

**stopgambling** · 02-27-2016, 04:00 AM

Use your Spidey Sense. I meant common sense.When you play the right way ,you are not fitting into the demographic of ploppies which is the majority of casino goers. Therefore you are "wrong" even when you are right. Usually don't talk to them or answer them is a good way as they don't know exactly what you are about. As soon as you interact with them you will give off clues of how and what you are thinking which could escalate the situation. i had a few of these situation where I won and lost some of these conflicts(ploppies and dealers) because of my interaction. it was never a good idea come to think of it after ward.

**Three** · 02-27-2016, 04:12 AM

I carried a BS card and showed it when it backed me up but in retrospect most of the complainers and blamers are going to blame everyone and everything they can because they know they would win every hand if it weren't for others screwing them up. Have had some successes at changing how people think but in retrospect it is clear the vast majority just can't except responsibility for what happens to them and will make fools of themselves while claiming the cut, the dealer, others play or whether you are wearing the right clothes for their losing the hand. You can try saying the next card is not the dealers card until I wave it off. Also sitting at 3rd base paints a target on your chest for such idiots. Often other seats are open at the table.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 02-27-2016, 05:59 AM

In my experience it is difficult to reason with people that you did nothing wrong. T3 mentioned that even an authoritative appeal to a BS card or a dealer (a lot less reliable than the card) won't stem you from the shit storm people like to conjure up. The point is, that for the most part, there's not much if anything you can say to people that will placate them. Unfortunately, I've found my best option is to just ignore it. Luckily I usually always have the dealers sympathy since the ones in my neck of the woods happen to be a bit more educated (on gambling) than elsewhere. A lot of the stories I hear, dealers seem to be as knowledgeable (and as courteous) as people they deal to. It definitely makes the situation a lot more uncomfortable when there's two people berating you.

I guess you'll just have to grow a thick skin. People skills will only take you so far in mitigating the anger and irrationality of others.

**ZeeBabar** · 02-27-2016, 06:15 AM

"Recently, I was at a table with one other player that was betting between 100-500 a hand. He had rebought a few times and got into a big 3 way split with 2 double downs when he had his max bet out. I also had a max bet out with A7 vs dealer 2. I put out the chips for doubling down and he started getting livid saying cmon man don't fuck me. Then he starts berating the play telling me I dont know how to play. To try upset him the least I had the dealer put it face down. Dealer hits his 12 for 21 and sweeps the table and reveals my card which happened to be a deuce. I could see the steam coming from his ears and he tells me I cost him 5k and I try remind him I lost the hand to. He kept going on how dumb I was and the dealer is agreeing with him that I should never have doubled. This kind of situation seems to come up quite a bit when we make the correct basic strategy plays that other plays don't understand."

Someimes, in the above case, I would let him have it and not double. If you occasionally do it, let the guy play your hand, the bigger bettor appreciates, likes you and often, it's good to play along with a ploppy betting bigger than you.

**bec88** · 02-27-2016, 08:43 AM

Last night my wife play playing a shoe game, she got a soft 14 vs a dealer 10. She hits it and makes a hand (forgot total.) Guy on third base plays his hand and then the dealer proceeds to draw a hand a scoop up the table. The ploppy proceeds to mumble my wife was an idiot along with another lady on first base. This was done after the dealer made her hand O_o. Regardless he continued to play at this same table for about 15 more min all upset because he was losing, he was staying on 14s vs Face card among other ploppy moves. He disrespected the bar tenders and was just and overall jerk. My wife got flustered enough to sit out the end of the shoe, i told her it was best just to forget it. Had i heard him call her an idiot i might have said something to him but oh well... probably best not to engage.

Its also like clockwork for me.... our local store has offers LS, just about EVERY TIME i surrender a hand.... about 4 seconds later a ploppy will say I quote "Surrender? I didn't know you could do that... what does that mean?" or.... "Im not here to give up, im here to gamble" I smile and wish them luck

Its funny how if you play ploppy basic strategy, you are a good player who knows what they are doing. But if you actually play basic strategy you come across as a strange player... *hit your 12v3* "Hey thats a bust card." What i have found recently since i started counting making proper index plays make it even worse. Especially taking insurance on a 16 or something.

Ive honestly only ever ran into 2 people so far that actually know basic strategy. So if i see someone playing perfect BS it really catches my eye.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 02-27-2016, 09:47 AM

"There are other players at the table ?"

shamelessly plagiarized

**Sweaty** · 02-27-2016, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Someimes, in the above case, I would let him have it and not double. If you occasionally do it, let the guy play your hand, the bigger bettor appreciates, likes you and often, it's good to play along with a ploppy betting bigger than you.

Maybe if the index is close but OP had max bet out. Index A7 vs 2 is 0. DO NOT give up the EV to try keeping peace at the table. The ploppies reaction is 100% results based. He will be high-fiving you if it works out for him in the end. We counters need to "make hay when the sun shines." Don't be intimidated and play as you should.

A line I use: "You can tell me how to spend my money when you pay my bills."

**Frank Galvin** · 02-27-2016, 10:00 AM

ZMF, and I know you were shamelessly borrowing a "Normism", your quip makes me wonder whether Adam Smith's theory of tge invisible hand might actually have been inspired by ploppies (invisible to him) sitting down at first and second base taking cards that would otherwise have been split between him and the dealer.

Who knew that one of the great economic philosophers was actually a degenerate AP???

**Zach Black** · 02-27-2016, 10:11 AM

There are other players at the table?

**mofungoo** · 02-27-2016, 10:44 AM

I'll usually try to piss them off so they will leave. Hitting stiffs in a negative count is good for that. I will respond in a foreign language if asked a question directly, then shrug my shoulders. The more pissed they get the better I like it.

**stopgambling** · 02-27-2016, 07:11 PM

Splitting 10s works wonder!

It is also fun at minimum bets. i am only afraid of what kind of attention i will be getting.

**ZeeBabar** · 02-27-2016, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by stopgambling

Splitting 10s works wonder!

It is also fun at minimum bets. i am only afraid of what kind of attention i will be getting.

I would only do it if I have a pair, if the dealer has a bust card and make a quip ("never done it before but what the heck I am winning (or losing) and it's time to go home" ).

i don't think you would get in trouble unless you do it more than once in a session and your cover is good.