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Thread: Count each card individually as soon as they drop on the table or count pairs???

  1. #14


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    I used to be very slow at counting pairs and avoided crowded table,
    Then I found out that I can count pairs and hit cards slowly as the dealer progresses. that was also easy
    Then I realized that when it comes to take insurance at high counts, I have to make funny sounds and gestures at the table to buy some time before finally making a decision to whether I want insurance or not!
    Now I do it normally just by counting pairs as they are dealt and then counting dealers up card

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    My counting is just like the OP's. I tend to do a bit of acting/conversation as the round is finished, the dealer picks up cards, deals first round and then start counting right behind the dealer as he lays down the 2nd card. Sometimes, I can be a little more behind the dealer so the cancelling process can start.

    the most problems regarding losing the count happens when I have a max bet out, then splitting and resplitting plus a double or two. If it's a fast paced game, I have sometimes lost the count as I am calculating, making decisions regarding playing decisions and such. A time or two, I know the count is positive but unsure what it is after my spli/doubles, so I will still have a big bet out but now I am playing BS for playing decisions because I lost the exact count.

    i just have to get better at it. I must remember to slow it down a bit but then it appears that I am counting before completing my splits and such.
    Wow! What do you bet the next hand - rhetorical, don't answer.
    Once in a blue moon - okay, but you're suggesting this is a regular occurrence. Yikes.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali D View Post
    Then I realized that when it comes to take insurance at high counts, I have to make funny sounds and gestures at the table to buy some time before finally making a decision to whether I want insurance or not!
    If you have a stack of chips out asking the dealer to count them down for you works great and people don't think you are constipated.

  4. #17


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    I find that I adjust my counting styles based on a few variables: number of people at the table, my position at the table and dealer's speed. For instance, if I'm at sitting at the center field position and there's a fast dealer, I'll wait until all the cards are on the felt, then I'll count the cards to my right up to and including my hand and the dealer's up card. Then the next chance I get, I'll glance to my left and pick up the other players' cards. Then I go one-by-one as the hands are hit. If I'm at third base, I'll wait until all the cards are on the table and then count'm down.

    Each situation might be a little different, so you have to get into a rhythm with the dealer and learn to glance at the table naturally based on where you're sitting. No right answer on exactly how to go about it other than you need to practice and get ridiculously good at this part of the game so you can focus on the more important things like comportment, act, etc.

  5. #18


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    In shoe games I count after the dealer has given all players two up cards and he has his up card. It is then easy to scan the table making many eliminations before resorting to counting. I count the dealers up card last or cancel it with a hand. I then count one at time during the hand reconciliation.

    Be careful to watch which way the dealer flips his down card, does it go to the right of his up card or to the left. This can sometime confuse you about did you count his card. Most dealers do it the same way every time but all dealers may not be alike.

    In pitch games dealt down, I count at reconciliation. This is a little tricky with a fast dealer if you have other players at the table.

    If I make an error, that I recognize, then I will either adjust my running count down to more than cover the error or I will revert to basic strategy and start counting again while considering the cards in the discard tray as behind the cut card due to my restart. My intent is to move on after an error with as little negative impact as possible and not add to my risk by placing large bets at a possible overstated count.

    Most importantly, do it the same way all the time.

    Use backcounting to practice by waiting for all the hands to be dealt and the dealer has his up card before you start. It will allow you to cancel multiple hands out very quickly which will improve you skill. You will soon find that you can get the count from a full table in a very few seconds.
    Luck is nothing more than probability taken personally!

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    The closer you get to the end if the shoe, the worse this approach is. Assume for a moment a nicely dealt deep cut shoe. The closer you get to that cut card, the more volatile that deck becomes. There is a greater probability for needing an index play, which you may well miss with your approach - or the wrong index play.
    Yeah i can see how that would be less than ideal. I will try to work on that. Thanks for pointing it out.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeeBabar View Post
    the most problems regarding losing the count happens when I have a max bet out, then splitting and resplitting plus a double or two. If it's a fast paced game, I have sometimes lost the count as I am calculating, making decisions regarding playing decisions and such. A time or two, I know the count is positive but unsure what it is after my spli/doubles, so I will still have a big bet out but now I am playing BS for playing decisions because I lost the exact count.
    You should rarely have to do math for playing decisions. What I do is my deck estimations are by half deck. If that is an integer I see the string of multiples in my head. Like if it is 3 decks remaining I see ...-9, -6, 0, +3, +6, +9, +12, +15... if the index is +3 you compare the RC to +9 which is the third increment above 0 or you can put the RC in the sequence where it fits and go to the integer lower than or equal to the RC in the sequence for the TC and compare that to the index or use it to make the appropriate bet. If it is an integer and a half I see the even multiples with ticks halfway between them. Example decks remaining 3.5 you see ...-7, *, 0, *, +7, *, +14, *, +21... The numbers are the even multiples and the ticks are the odd multiples. If you do this your thoughts never leave the count and everything else is adjusted to the count and without conscious math rather than count needing to be adjusted to another number. This means you never stop thinking about the count and make decisions free of math. You just count and make the right moves without thinking much at all. You just have to get used to seeing the multiplication table in your head in a sequence like you had to learn to do in elementary school. Young kids that take to math easy could do this. Having been removed from elementary school for a while you may or may not need some practice visualizing and just knowing what the multiples are for each number but they were drilled into you in elementary school so it will come without much practice. Once that happens you just know the plays without doing math. I suppose you are changing the math to an engineering graphics problem that you visualize the diagram in your head.

    Today we use firing tables or a computer for computing artillery fire solutions. You must account for wind, elevation change, distance to target, and cannon angle, etc for an accurate solution. The French centuries ago had the best artillery for years because they used graphics rather than math for artillery firing solutions. It was much faster and without the aid of calculators much more accurate. There weren't many math whizzes in the military back then. They reduced everything to a graphical vector problem for quick visualization without the use of math. You just needed to train artillerymen to draw accurately. This was something more people could do more accurately than the math. Most other artillery arrays just wasted ammunition in a trial and error method. Napoleon used a lot of tactics to make his artillery far superior to everyone else's artillery. One was conservation of ammunition until it is most effective and graphical firing solutions gave him the upper hand for accuracy which meant only firing effective shots rather than firing too soon as most did or using test shots that missed their mark. You had to transport cannons and their munitions and being more effective at using what you transported was a big advantage.

    Anyway the point is you can use graphics rather than math in your head to conserve brainpower and stay focused on the count. What I have described is using graphics rather than math to solve the decisions you make at the tables. For me it is a no brainer. I just had to get used to the number strings. There is a finite number of deck estimates to half deck accuracy. Since the half integers are just the evens with ticks between them for the graphical representations so you just have the multiplication tables for each integer that you had beaten into your head in elementary school. It is not hard to visualize once you start trying.

  8. #21
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ali D View Post
    Then I realized that when it comes to take insurance at high counts, I have to make funny sounds and gestures at the table to buy some time before finally making a decision to whether I want insurance or not!
    One way to help and get around this (at a pitch game) is to ask your fellow players if they have any high/face cards. Usually I have no issue getting the table to show me their hands. This slows the insurance decision down and gives you a chance to calculate "hidden" hands before you make your insurance decision.
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #22


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  10. #23
    Senior Member MJGolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vhalen View Post
    If you want to be a paying member..............not that they are not successful at what they do. But there are other free sources on the web if you want to practice online or off your phone.
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and Men and dogs should just relax and get used to the idea" --- Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by MJGolf View Post
    If you want to be a paying member..............not that they are not successful at what they do. But there are other free sources on the web if you want to practice online or off your phone.
    I am not a paying member. But the counting practice drill is free on the site. I use this site and couple other free resources on the web to practice counting. So far I have managed to count 1 deck in 25 sec (Hi-Low with Ace side count). I mostly play pitch game and only start counting when the dealer starts revealing each hand..

  12. #25


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    Count by pairs, counting by one will make u do double the work.

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by BookieBeater View Post
    Hey buddies!

    I have just started learning counting and it's AWESOME! I am making less and less mistakes and upping the pace each day :-)

    But I wonder what technique is best to use and practice to become a winner at (land based) casinos over here...

    Right now I practice at online live casinos and I find it WAY easier to not count each individual card as soon as the dealer starts dealing them..... but to wait until each seat has been dealt one card and the dealer starts drawing to second to the first seat and so on.....

    So I basically begin counting as soon as the second 'hole card' has dropped at seat 1 and I then 'chase' the dealer and count the 'pairs' at each seat.

    By counting the pairs I find it WAY less stressful and I can easily 'cancel out' high and low cards to a 0 count and move on to the nex seat/pair, if you now what I mean...?

    If I try to count each individual card as soon as they drop I find it a bit of a 'rabbit race' or chase if you will...

    But then live casinos are quiet slow and I wonder if the pace at the real blackjack tables will allow me to wait and count 'pairwise'...

    How do you guys count (at local casinos)? Each card on the fly, or pairwise?
    Count by pairs, counting by one will make u do double the work. ????????????????????????

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