I was Wondering If There is Any Young successful Card counters Out there?
21+ -30
At What Age Did You Become Excellent at Card Counting and beating the Casinos?
I think at such an age the most difficult thing is coming up with an adequate bankroll. I actually began counting at age 18 with $1,000 to devote to the game. Without revealing my exact age, I will say it has been less than 5 years since I played in my first casino, and I have kept detailed records of wins/losses to date. I have a very small profit, but at this point I think it is more about continuing to learn, hone skills, and have a good time. When I have $50,000 I can fully devote to my bankroll I will return to the good games and situations I have found and be able to hit them hard.
I self-taught using online resources and friendly contributors. If you have any specific questions about my experiences I will be happy to answer.
Its very hard to walk into a casino at 22 years of age, buy in for 30k and not raise an eyebrow. Most people that age just dont have the kind of money a Card counter puts into action when they are 3 years out of high school or still in college. It looks very strange and is a big red flag in itself.
My experience has confirmed this problem, but at a much lower level than anything near 30k. If you go to smaller places and run through several hundred dollars or bet more than even $25 on one hand or cash out over 1k you will look out of place in your low 20s and especially high teens (places with gambling age lower than 21). I've had comments directed at me, albeit usually in a friendly manner, relating to my "having rich parents" and things of the like, simply because people assume very young gamblers are dumb, spoiled rich kids, when in actuality I penny pinch in almost all areas of life. I think there are ways to work this to one's advantage.Originally Posted by ACFERRET
First, I think it is an unusually dumb 21 year old if that person is thinking of a career as a card counter. They are much better off going to college and a degree that will make them a career. Given the ups and downs of being a professional blackjack player is devastating on all the other aspects of life (relationships, parenting, respect in the community, future).
Counting is not hard but it makes everything else in life impossible. Addiction is also a huge issue. There is a reason the clientele of a casino is generally made up of folks 50-70.
Everyone likes lies to believe that what they are doing in life is best but it is a rationalization that we make to keep our sanity.
if you are under 30, please concentrate on other stuff and play BJ every now and then. Spend more time on other stuff. If you are spending a lot of time thinking and studying BJ, you are simply in denial about your addiction. Fact remains that each decade of BJ has been worse that the prior one for playing BJ and conditions are only going to get worse. There will be more technology and poorer rules. Even $50k BR will only generate an annual income less than $25k with great risk that you will lose it all. The highs that you feel after a win now is no different than the high you feel from doing dope.
I started when I was 19. Don't play much BJ anymore, do other AP stuff.
Sometimes they get weird about young people playing "big" money. Other times it's just perfectly normal. But then again, I never really bet THAT much, 2x$600 or 2x$800 at the most. Of course it's gonna be much easier at an older age where it looks more normal and they can't really ask for ID to verify your age (or use that as a reasonable excuse). But -- I sure as hell ain't waiting 30 years just so I can play without being asked for ID.
"Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]
Really Zen?? I thought it was a horseshit post. I guess that isn't saying that it isn't his best.
"If you're under 30 and spend time playing/thinking about blackjack you're an addict in denial"
This is a trash statement and I take offense to it especially from coming from someone as inexperienced as Zee. Who you, Zen, have called a degenerate gambler multiple times.
"It is an unusually dumb 21 year old if they're thinking of a career as a card counter"
Really? Someone who has the ability and discipline to beat the casinos by card counting is "unusually dumb" because they choose that over a more traditional career path?
I'm not going to debate economy/jobs/college but anyone who thinks one-size-fits-all lacks perspective.
"Even a 50k bankroll will only generate 25k income with great risk that you will lose it all"
Wrong. Maybe a great risk for YOU to lose it all, and maybe YOU can only generate 25k, but please, do not put all young CC's in the same boat as YOU.
"The highs you feel now when you win are no different than when you do dope."
WTF is this? Not only are all people under 30 blackjack addicts but they're all dope-heads too?
I'm a very laid back person and never let emotions dictate my play (or other decisions in life) but Zee's post straight up offensive to a young AP. You're thinking just like the old man you are.
Now, to hopefully add some value to my post.
As far as buying-in goes for enough money that gets you attention, you have to play the part. Obviously your duds will help, but have a believable story if someone asks. I hate playing the spoiled rich kid so I have a great background story made up. The beauty of it is
A. Many people have heard about the technology I used to make my money, but know little about it.
-they can't ask questions, or the ones they do are very basic.
B. It fits. Its a new technology. I look young. Many people will never use this technology in their lives, it makes sense a young person would have invested in it before someone older who isn't familiar with technology.
C. It looks like I got lucky and don't care about throwing my money around. I bought my shares at an extremely affordable price, and when I tell people what they peaked at, there are no more questions about why I have money.
I refrain from saying what I sold them at or how much I bought, because even if the story was true, it's none of their business.
The sad part is I actually decided against this investment a few years ago. Such is life for those afraid to take risks.
Like everything ... It depends;
If you are well known/ well liked young entrepreneur in a relatively small area where you can play 3-4 casinos on a regular basis, semi-polite rated (or unrated in some cases) then I don't think it raises any suspicion . Especially if you know a few people that work in the casino and they know you have a business, and a job - and then the mix of casino records showing that you have capabilities of losing 5k~ in a sitting and coming back the next day as if it never happened I think you'd be fine.
However, when on the road traveling and you keep rebuying for upper 2-3k each sitting and NO ONE knows you AND you are playing as a refusal eyebrows certainly get raised, phones start ringing, and on rare occasions that one lasts long enough a host may even show up to greet you.
There is no glory in practice, but without practice there is no glory . -Unknown
+1
I'm almost certain that this thread will turn into the young guys vs the 'real pros' who have been counting for a quarter century .
Last edited by Orangechip2; 02-22-2016 at 05:37 AM.
There is no glory in practice, but without practice there is no glory . -Unknown
Sweaty, there are successful professional basketball players that make a decent living, professional golfers who do it too and you cite a few successful card counters as well. Just like Kobe Bryant, there are a few that played 20 yeas as a pro but the average life of a pro is more like 5 years. A hell of a lot of successful counters, more recently SCG, have quit or hardly play anymore because it's already too difficult to do it full time.
Would I or you encourage your kid to drop everything and be a professional basketball player?
How many would be counters do you think are out there having failed? What percentage of those who gave it all to BJ are now still full time counters? Is it like the number in high school who dream of playing in the NBA and never make it?
Back in the period between 1979 and 1990, I too got hooked on the game. All games in Las Vegas were 1-2 decks (Binions downtown had over 60 single deck games), there was no IETS or other technology. I lived in San Bernardino, was working full time and going to graduate school. I found myself heading to Las Vegas every weekend. Thoughts of becoming a full time pro were constantly swirling in my head. The best decision I ever made was to leave Ca. I quit, moved to Dayton, OH, worked and did graduate school (everyone was shocked that I would dump Ca for OH). In those days casinos were only in Las Vegas and Atlantic City.
My education and degrees are in Psychology and Counseling. I know how addiction works. It's why, now that I am retiring, I have opted to move and live in a city that has no casinos within 300 miles. This way, I can limit playing to about 10 days a month, max. My aim is just to make enough for an occasional vacation.
If if you think a person should quit looking at other careers and pursue BJ, and if you have done that, get on the list in about 12 years and let us know you are still a full time player.
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