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Thread: Hand expectations for BLACK SWITCH with S17 rule

  1. #1


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    Hand expectations for BLACK SWITCH with S17 rule

    Hi,

    Please help me to find out hand expectations for BLACK SWITCH with S17 rule ?

    The details BJ SWITCH rules are :-

    1) 6 deck
    2) S17
    3) No surrender
    4) DOA & DAS
    5) BLACKJACK AFTER SWITCH
    6) One original hand can split once, 2 original hands can split max into 4 hands
    7) Split ace only get one card

    Please note that hand expectations with H17 rule has been calculated by wizard of odds, see : wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/switch/appendix/1

    Regards

    James

  2. #2


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    1. I don't recall seeing anything published
    2. All of the playing strategies I've seen were simplifications in which the H17-S17 distinction would make much difference
    The Cash Cow.

  3. #3


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    Out of curiosity, what is your motivation behind obtaining this information.

    In any case, you have a very low edge house game that isn't (afaik) very straightforward to count, if plausible with a linear count at all.

    If you're just playing this game casually, it's probably your best bet for lowest edge table game.

    If you're trying to AP it, you'd be better off trying to figure out the side bet.

  4. #4


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    It's somewhat countable. The problem is the high HE off the top.
    The Cash Cow.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    It's somewhat countable. The problem is the high HE off the top.
    How does counting the main game compare to regular blackjack?

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by NotEnoughHeat View Post
    How does counting the main game compare to regular blackjack?
    I apologize, I was thinking about Free Bet when I said the high HE off the top. It's usually about .65-8% (depends on the complexity of your switching strategy), which is high, but not as bad as Free Bet.

    Bankroll management is funny, because you always have to play 2 hands. But overall, it's a decent game. All other things equal, I'd say it's a bit worse than a comparable blackjack game. It's never going to be a 200 SCORE game, but you could probably grind a bit of money out of it.

    http://discountgambling.net/2013/03/...ckjack-switch/
    The Cash Cow.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    I apologize, I was thinking about Free Bet when I said the high HE off the top. It's usually about .65-8% (depends on the complexity of your switching strategy), which is high, but not as bad as Free Bet.

    Bankroll management is funny, because you always have to play 2 hands. But overall, it's a decent game. All other things equal, I'd say it's a bit worse than a comparable blackjack game. It's never going to be a 200 SCORE game, but you could probably grind a bit of money out of it.

    http://discountgambling.net/2013/03/...ckjack-switch/
    Interesting. I didn't imagine the EORs to be that similar to regular blackjack. Seeing this, I think it's worth looking into as something to add to my repertoire. For my store, I am pretty certain I can get away with much larger spread than my normal counting game due to my idiosyncratic heat circumstances.

  8. #8
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    James989

    contact me via this (throwaway) email account and I will assist you as far as I can.

    Better yet, pay for your subscription here and we can use P.M. (Private messages)

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  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by NotEnoughHeat View Post
    Interesting. I didn't imagine the EORs to be that similar to regular blackjack. Seeing this, I think it's worth looking into as something to add to my repertoire. For my store, I am pretty certain I can get away with much larger spread than my normal counting game due to my idiosyncratic heat circumstances.
    The 2 is worth more than usual. So, if you're using a level 2, adjust accordingly. Otherwise, Hi Lo gets the money (as usual).
    The Cash Cow.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by moo321 View Post
    The 2 is worth more than usual. So, if you're using a level 2, adjust accordingly. Otherwise, Hi Lo gets the money (as usual).
    For switch, how much more effective is say a lvl 2 with tags (starting w/ 2): 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -0.5, 1, -0.5 as seen on discount gambling. I'm trying to decide whether it's worth going to the trouble of learning a specialized count for this game or just sticking with hi-lo and counting on the larger spread to give my EV that boost I'm hoping for. I don't want to accidentally post a question that leads to The Great Count Debate. Basically what I want to hear is roughly how good is hi-lo for switch as compared to regular BJ (80%, 90%, w/e rigorous or rough metric you want to use). However, from what I can infer from you post it should be good enough to "[get] the money".

  11. #11
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    What are the betting EoR's for switch?

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    What are the betting EoR's for switch?
    As found in the link below (also posted in #6 of this thread), the EORs are:
    Removed Rank EOR Balanced Unbalanced
    Deuce 0.0959% +1 +1
    Trey[sic] 0.0711% +1 +1
    Four 0.0891% +1 +1
    Five 0.1086% +1 +1
    Six 0.1077% +1 +1
    Seven 0.0379%
    Eight 0.0166%
    Nine 0.0564% -0.5
    Ten/Face 0.0925% -1 -1
    Ace 0.0561% -0.5
    As we are told, most of the EORs are similar to normal BJ. However, due to the 1:1 BJ rule Aces lose some value with some of the lost value being found in 9s. It'd be interesting if someone pulled up the EORs for normal bj for easy comparison.

    The article also says the the EORs for the switch decision are very low so learning the indices for your switch decision would not yield much benefit.

    http://discountgambling.net/2013/03/...ckjack-switch/

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