Getting Backed Off

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 02-12-2016, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by ACFERRET

"When the police show up at a time like this, you gotta drop the hammer and put them in thier place, tell the police to file complaints againts the actors for assaulting you during thier unlawfull detention, and prosecute them."

This occurred at an Indian casino. They are sovereign. You have no rights. Forewarned is forearmed.

**txlouder** · 02-12-2016, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

This occurred at an Indian casino. They are sovereign. You have no rights. Forewarned is forearmed.

Not exactly true. They are sovereign in somewhat the same way as a State is sovereign. They are still part of these United States and federal law still prevails in the same way it prevails (or in some cases, not) over state law.

**Banker** · 02-12-2016, 10:16 AM

If they are like states, how come they do not pay federal taxes?

**Freightman** · 02-12-2016, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by txlouder

Not exactly true. They are sovereign in somewhat the same way as a State is sovereign. They are still part of these United States and federal law still prevails in the same way it prevails (or in some cases, not) over state law.

Don't let your opinion get in the way.

**txlouder** · 02-12-2016, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

Don't let your opinion get in the way.

Are you saying I am misinformed and/or misinforming?

**Banker** · 02-12-2016, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by txlouder

Are you saying I am misinformed and/or misinforming?

Let the personal issues aside. You made an important and interesting point for all of us. Could you please submit supporting evidence for this opinion.

**Freightman** · 02-12-2016, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Banker

Let the personal issues aside. You made an important and interesting point for all of us. Could you please submit supporting evidence for this opinion.

An open mind is good. There is actually some recent legal info - I believe Arizona based tribal issue, which involves a successful action against - not the casino - but individuals acting on behalf of same, which, I think, includes non trubal law enforcement.

There are others who can speak more knowledably on this issue than I - regardless - I wouldn't hold my breath on other tribal gaming issues. I would be very pleased, as I'm sure many others, if TXlouder can prove me wrong on the tribal issue in general.

**txlouder** · 02-12-2016, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Banker

Let the personal issues aside. You made an important and interesting point for all of us. Could you please submit supporting evidence for this opinion.

Firstly, IANAL...

Secondly, I'll admit that my comment was glib and possibly even inaccurate. Certainly it is neither completely correct to say that Indian nations have absolute sovereignty nor to say they are just like US States.

Nevertheless, consulting the frequently unreliable source, Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trib..._United_States), I see that the courts have ruled that the Bill of Rights applies to Indian nations when Congress says it applies. And Congress seems to have said so in enacting Section 1983. All that said, I have absolutely no idea if a Section 1983 claim has ever succeeded against an Indian nation.

THAT is my opinion.

**Banker** · 02-12-2016, 10:53 AM

Thanks for the clarification. My little understanding of this issue is that they do have sovereignty (as in a Nation sovereignty). However, most of the issues pertaining to them are dictated by the pact they made with the Federal Government, hence the congress involvement. So, the warning issues by Flash is for most practical purposes correct that a US citizen has little rights on the reservation. It gets paradoxically worse that some tribal police are given Federal Agents status by the Feds to investigate crime. So, lying to one of them could be consider crime not only by tribal law but by US law as well.

**txlouder** · 02-12-2016, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Banker

Thanks for the clarification. My little understanding of this issue is that they do have sovereignty (as in a Nation sovereignty). However, most of the issues pertaining to them are dictated by the pact they made with the Federal Government, hence the congress involvement. So, the warning issues by Flash is for most practical purposes correct that a US citizen has little rights on the reservation. It gets paradoxically worse that some tribal police are given Federal Agents status by the Feds to investigate crime. So, lying to one of them could be consider crime not only by tribal law but by US law as well.

I certainly agree that as a practical matter it is best to assume that you are subject to the whims of a foreign power when you play on the rez.

I also think it pays to seek competent counsel if you are violated. Don't just assume that the deck is stacked against you.

**ACFERRET** · 02-12-2016, 12:14 PM

I think Mohegan tribal gaming compact is a little different than others and allows for PI claims in based upon state laws. Though my guess is this hapened at foxwoods where they are known to be far less professional. Stories that I have heard indicate that foxwoods is the scum.

I haven't had to look into tribal sovereignty as it applies to various claims yet (fortunately), but i do know there are mountains of cases addressing the issue.

**Sandybestdog** · 02-12-2016, 05:37 PM

I am in Maryland and travel all around the East Coast. I was not aware that there were so many problems as others have described here. I was evicted from Horseshoe Baltimore. Three security guards approached me and said that it is required that I have ID while on the casino floor. I knew they were lying but gave it to them anyways. There is usually 2-3 police officers there and knowing Baltimore's stellar police record, I didn't want a confrontation. I was well known there. There was no trying to come back a few months later if I managed to got out of there without technically being evicted.

What I have not been able to find out is if approached by a police officer, am I required to give ID? I can't get a straight answer. As best I can gather, you don't have to if there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed. Of course this is just the legal definition, they can obviously make up whatever they want.

Oh and forget about playing without a players card. That's a huge red flag. An even bigger red flag is not playing side bets. You stick out like a sore thumb. People actually get mad at you. The other day 2 players actually stopped the game to ask the dealer if they still got envy bonus if I hit a progressive but wasn't playing. Why do they even have the game? They should just have all side bets.

**Stealth** · 02-12-2016, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by txlouder

I certainly agree that as a practical matter it is best to assume that you are subject to the whims of a foreign power when you play on the rez.

There is some activity with players taking legal action against the individuals rather than the tribe. I believe Nersesian is involved in one of these.