Which game would you play?

[Cardguy]

At my local casinos, I have the following options:

1) 8D, S17, LS, DAS, $10 min. Small store with only 3 tables so hard to table hop and hard to play more than one hand. I usually spread 15:1 and Wong out at -1.
2) 8D, H17, LS, DAS, $15 min. Large store with many tables so pretty easy to table hop but still hard to play more than one hand (crowded).
3) 6D, S17, LS, DAS, $25 min. Large store but only 3 tables with these rules. No mid-shoe entry so can't Wong in but can Wong out. Usually able to play two hands.

If it matters, I'm a recreational HiLo counter with a 20K bankroll. I play about 40 indices with <1% error rate on CVBJ.

Thanks!

[Freightman]

What's the deck pen

[Bigdaddy]

In card counting there are only three things that matter: penetration, penetration and penetration. So as Freightman asks, what is the penetration?

You can make a bad game (with a high house edge) good with good penetration, but you can never make a "good" game (with a low house edge) good with bad penetration.

[Ryemo]

In card counting there are only three things that matter: penetration, penetration and penetration. So as Freightman asks, what is the penetration?

You can make a bad game (with a high house edge) good with good penetration, but you can never make a "good" game (with a low house edge) good with bad penetration.

The only thing that I can think of that might be just as important (if not more important) than penetration is TOLERANCE! You could have access to a great game with great pen, but if that store is so scared of it's own shadow that they will back you off in no time, then that great pen won't do squat for you! Food for thought.

In regards to OP though, I would opt for the 6D game probably; penetration and tolerance would be huge factors to consider though...

CVCX will also help clear up these concerns too, FYI. I would highly recommend to make that investment.

[Banker]

Never say never. You can easily make a low house edge game with poor penetration fantastic by increasing your spread. Can you increase your spread and still play? we have two problems: variance and house tolerance. If the house is tolerant and you have a big bank roll, penetration becomes not that critical. Also, needless to say that there are games (may be not much in US) that is positive off the top and here again penetration is not that critical. Often you find games with great penetration protected quite a bit by the house and if you cannot play or you cannot spread big enough in fear of getting prematurely ejected from the house, then what is the use?

[Cardguy]

1.5 cut off in all games

[Orangechip2]

1.5 cut off in all games

I would play the 8d/s17 with the $10min. The $25 6d game with 1.5 cut off and you having a 20k roll makes that game instantly non-playable .

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Orangechip2 is correct;

BUT, the strategy going forward, is to develop a strategy
to increase the bankroll by 20+%; and learn to play with
a stronger count, in order to properly play the 6 deckers.

[Orangechip2]

Orangechip2 is correct;

BUT, the strategy going forward, is to develop a strategy
to increase the bankroll by 20+%; and learn to play with
a stronger count, in order to properly play the 6 deckers.

Which stronger count would you suggest to a h/l full indice player ?

[Freightman]

Which stronger count would you suggest to a h/l full indice player ?

For the Hi Lo player playing full indices - Consider halves. The indices are virtually identical (only minor differences, though taking insurance is one if them)

If you do give it a go, start slowly with minimal spreads. If you are motivated, the card cancellations will become easier and easier. If you want further info, let me know.

[Orangechip2]

Thanks Freightman. A few quick questions with regards to the games I regularly play and the halves count being optimal:

I usually play multi deck games (6 or 8) s/h17/ LS and pen is always >80% pen.
So, if I were to switch counts slowly but surely instead of spreading 1-12 on 6d or 1-16 on 8d with an aggressive Wong out using h/l, would it be possible to spread less and still make $$ wagering less money considering the PE is higher? How do you 'self test' to see if one is ready for for such a sophisticated count - or is it just a practice it on software and if you got it, you got it type of thing ?

Thanks in advance

[Jabberwocky]

$25 game is preferable using wong in strategy. I use it quite often except never against my fellow APs out of professional courtesy.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Which stronger count would you suggest to a h/l full indice player ?"

Any balanced, level 2 count, preferably "Ace Neutral"

The best of which is Hi-Opt II or Advanced Omega II.