Casino switching to boot games only?

[DatabaseGuy]

I was at a Gila River Casino near Phoenix and I could not see one CSM. All tables were boot games. What's the reasoning? Exploitation of the delusion of wannabe APs?

[Three]

Shuffle machines are rented. An honest evaluation proves they cost the casino more than they are worth even factoring in AP play. The smarter casino operators don't use them.

[DatabaseGuy]

Makes sense. More opportunities.

[dharmaprija]

That's interesting tthree, my local store is Choctaw, I will ask a buddy who works surveillance. I certainly hope they get rid of them! I'm going to post a thread with the rules @ that shop, 3, as you're our resident genie, could you figure house advantage on it?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

dharmaprija is asking for a "house advantage" based on the use of A.S.M.'s

Quelle Bizarre! The House Edge is Rules Dependent.

This is NOT clear. Do you know what the monthly lease fee is?
An A.S.M. clearly saves considerable time, as most casinos are
dealing a manual shuffle with enough complexity, to eat up 2
minutes per shoe.

Interestingly, DataBaseGuy has coined a new term -- "Boot Game"

[MJGolf]

That's interesting tthree, my local store is Choctaw, I will ask a buddy who works surveillance. I certainly hope they get rid of them! I'm going to post a thread with the rules @ that shop, 3, as you're our resident genie, could you figure house advantage on it?

Dharma: You are playing in Oklahoma. Some of the tribes...........mainly Choctaw USE CSM's. Do NOT play those games. There are many others that are hand shuffled or just ASM (automatic shuffling machines). These are DIFFERENT!

The house odds should not be any different when ASM's are used BUT CSM's..........basically continue the house edge as per whatever the house rules are. They are not countable; only BS applies. But the Wizard of Odds finds that they reduce the HE just a bit, when used. However, the number of hands per hour increases, negating any "found/slim" advantage.

See: http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/10/

[ACFERRET]

Whats interesting is that it seems lost to time the practice of having a dedicated "shuffler" working a pit. In the past, notibly on small riverboats, and online live blackjack games in other countries, I have seen a small flat work area for shuffling in the form of an outcropping located where an ASM would traditionally be located.

There is then a dealer that walks from table to table in the pit shuffling a fresh shoe in the work area while the dealer on the game uses another set of cards. Effectively, it is a live person fullfilling the role of an ASM, though the leasing expense is minimal in comparison I would imagine.


I never knew why more casinos dont do this and instead opt to pay the leasing fee.

[MJGolf]

Whats interesting is that it seems lost to time the practice of having a dedicated "shuffler" working a pit.
There is then a dealer that walks from table to table in the pit shuffling a fresh shoe in the work area while the dealer on the game uses another set of cards. Effectively, it is a live person fullfilling the role of an ASM, though the leasing expense is minimal in comparison I would imagine.

You are so right..........they definitely do this in online live games now. Of course, those oversized cards would probably NEVER fit in an ASM unless one was designed for the particular size and I doubt there is a real "demand" for those limited machines. LOL

[Three]

Do you know what the monthly lease fee is?

Before I say anything I will list the situation that got me the info. The little casino had gotten rid of all its ASM's. I asked the dealer why and he said they were expensive to rent and they have to pay the dealer's anyway. I don't know how good his info was but this is what came next. I asked how expensive. My impression is accurate but the amount may not be if he actually knew the amount to begin with. My impression was it was really expensive considering how many the place rented. They do generate some income in more rounds per hour but he said they were $500 a week (or maybe a month) each. I can't remember for sure. There used to be at least several dozen ASM's. So basically we have questionable source and fuzzy memory. I hesitated to answer at all but after thinking about it I felt I should. What I can say accurately is that what the dealer told me made me think it was quite expensive to rent a fleet of them.

[DatabaseGuy]

CSMs are gone, not ASM. Hand shuffling is becoming a rarity in my area anyway.

Boot games are much more favored by the players it seems. Are CSMs leased? How much does these things cost?

[ZeeBabar]

In my local casino, they elected to return all but a few ASM's. On weekends when they open more tables, this pit does not have any ASM's and hand shuffled. My understanding is that the ASM rental was $1800 per month per shuffler. If the casino bought it, they would then have to pay a monthly maintenance fee or have someone good enough to repair them.

since a lot of ASM's were not being used except on weekends, they saw no point in keeping them and paying the rental.

[Three]

My understanding is that the ASM rental was $1800 per month per shuffler

So my fuzzy memory wasn't that far off.

[Stealth]

Do you know what the monthly lease fee is?
An A.S.M. clearly saves considerable time, as most casinos are
dealing a manual shuffle with enough complexity, to eat up 2
minutes per shoe.

Really "counter intuitive" (pun intended) to use ASM to speed up game while cutting two decks off the back.????? Duh? If management would do the analysis they would learn that reducing penetration would provide more revenue than the ASM and there is no rental fee. Do both and you have a winner, winner chicken dinner.