Zen Indices -- Blackbelt in Blackjack

[RS]

This is the "True Edge" method. It's not completely making sense to me on how to use it or WHY you would use that approach.

It says you find your True Edge by dividing your RC by decks remaining times 4. TE = RC/(4 * DR), where TE is true edge, DR is decks remaining.

To use the chart, you stand when this TE is equal to or greater than the number listed. (Same goes for double down / surrender / split.)

For standing: 12v2: 1, 12v3: 1, 12v4: 0, 12v5: -1, 12v6: -1(h17).

What about House Edge? Do I have to subtract (or "add") that in my True Edge calculation? Because after all, a "true edge" isn't much without knowing what my edge (or lack of edge) is off the top. Of is this 'true edge' just a name? I calculated my DD game to have an edge of -0.21%. DD, DAS, RSA, LS, H17, Double Any 2 (DA2?).

Is this the technique that most use? It seems a bit complicated and, due to the "multiply by 4" thing, doesn't give you as precise indices. Or do y'all generally just find the TC = (RC / decks remaining), then use that number for index plays?

I have a chart I saved a while ago, though I can't find it's origin anymore, I have:

12v2: 6, 12v3: 3, 12v4: 1, 12v5: -2, 12v6: -5(h17), then of course the rest for all the other stand/double/split decisions.


I suppose the only advantage to the "true edge" method is that it is simpler -- instead of remembering 6/3/1/-1/-5, when you have 12, you remember 1/1/0/-1/-1. But dealing with weird fractions, would increase error rates.

Also, I couldn't find anything on bet sizing for Zen in this book.

[Goatlife]

when i wanted to learn zen i was told to use the count per pack version in the 1983 verision.

Here is a link to all the indicies

http://blackjackforumonline.com/cont...nt_Indices.htm

[bigplayer]

Dump the True Edge method, it's really True Count by quarter deck. (RC/4). It results in a lot of inaccuracies in betting and playing (essentially rounded index numbers). Use the Original Zen Count....if you have CVData or Casino Verite the indexes are in. The original Zen is a count per deck system and has a higher win rate. I used CVData to generate the Risk Averse Zen index numbers I currently use for myself. As for betting, with True Edge you'd put your top bet out at +2.5 or +3 depending on the off the top rules and half of your top bet out at +1.5. (you have to use fractional counts for accurate betting with true edge to be worth the effort). For the CPD Original Zen most people start to raise their bets between +2 and +3 and usually top out by +9 betting half their top bet at around +5.

[RS]

when i wanted to learn zen i was told to use the count per pack version in the 1983 verision.

Here is a link to all the indicies

http://blackjackforumonline.com/cont...nt_Indices.htm

Ah! Those are the charts that I have saved (I took screenshots on my iphone). Glad to see that.

Dump the True Edge method, it's really True Count by quarter deck. (RC/4). It results in a lot of inaccuracies in betting and playing (essentially rounded index numbers). Use the Original Zen Count....if you have CVData or Casino Verite the indexes are in. The original Zen is a count per deck system and has a higher win rate. I used CVData to generate the Risk Averse Zen index numbers I currently use for myself. As for betting, with True Edge you'd put your top bet out at +2.5 or +3 depending on the off the top rules and half of your top bet out at +1.5. (you have to use fractional counts for accurate betting with true edge to be worth the effort). For the CPD Original Zen most people start to raise their bets between +2 and +3 and usually top out by +9 betting half their top bet at around +5.

Ah, gotcha.




So to verify this information [I just don't want to start (re)learning stuff the wrong way], my TC is RC/(decks remaining), and use that TC in the charts provided above (or in Casino Verite), for my index plays. And for betting:

TC < 2 = 1 unit
TC 2-3 = 2 units
TC 3-4 = 3 units
TC 4-5 = 4 units
TC 5-6 = 5 units
TC 6+ = 6 units

[zengrifter]

User is banned, content deleted.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Yes, Snyder's Folly it certainly was.

The only credible mark against him.


The actual problem is that it uses "rounding" in extremis,

which the immortal Peter Griffin warned us against.


p.s. BigPlayer's post is 100% "spot on."

Not that we would expect otherwise.

[zengrifter]

User is banned, content deleted.

[dharmaprija]

Ah! Those are the charts that I have saved (I took screenshots on my iphone). Glad to see that.




Ah, gotcha.




So to verify this information [I just don't want to start (re)learning stuff the wrong way], my TC is RC/(decks remaining), and use that TC in the charts provided above (or in Casino Verite), for my index plays. And for betting:

TC < 2 = 1 unit
TC 2-3 = 2 units
TC 3-4 = 3 units
TC 4-5 = 4 units
TC 5-6 = 5 units
TC 6+ = 6 units

RollinStond i am in the same boat with you...learning Zen...my understanding is that the BC is based upon your EDGE...so what zen does by my meager comprehension is allow you to bet your advantage which is a simplification of the bet strategy. If my advantage is 1% i bet one unit, so on and so forth...your above grid exemplifies this. I read somewhere,(dont recall where/Griffins "theory of BJ" maybe?) that betting the count is incorrect, tho this method appears 2 encourage it. I have a question about zen while we're on it...how does it provide better results? I mean if i have counted down a whole deck and am at a -1 with only a single card remaining, its an Ace of course but how/what (does) accuracy come(s) with this info for a 6D shoe? I don't see any more SPECIFIC info coming from a Zen TC of 2 and a Hi/Lo TC of 2...or if it IS then how so? I am learning so plz don't mock too hard

[Mitya23air]

when i wanted to learn zen i was told to use the count per pack version in the 1983 verision.

Here is a link to all the indicies

http://blackjackforumonline.com/cont...nt_Indices.htm

The link is not working((((