What type of spread for this game?

**Jc3** · 01-10-2016, 10:02 PM

6D / 80% penetration / H17 / DAS / Resplit A

Please feel free to rip apart any part of this scheme. Im not interested in the preservation of feelings so be as candid as you'd like with any critiques. Im only interested in improving my game and EV.
Ive been using 1-12 thus far for HI-Lo count.

True count:
>1 = 1U
1=2
2=4
3=8
4=10
5=12 or 2x75

**Three** · 01-10-2016, 10:21 PM

You don't give a lot of information to go on. I will assume Hilo full indices and a small BR due to the small top bet. 2x75 would be the same as 1x100 in terms of a constant RoR. So that would means an $8 unit. You appear to be wonging in at TC +1. Your spread should be smaller for wong in (1-8 max, 1-6 less conspicuous, no need for a large spread if you are only playing with an advantage) and you should reach max bet sooner at either TC +4 or +3. I will let others get more specific once you have stated number of indices and BR in either real money or number of units. And confirm your wonging style.

**Jc3** · 01-10-2016, 11:49 PM

Tthree: Thank you for taking the time to comment. So essentially im only equipped with the proverbial I18 indices. My max bet is just over 1% of the BR. I Don't really do much wonging unless the running count heads south of -10. Could this be a leak in my game?

**Freightman** · 01-11-2016, 01:56 AM

I'll make an assumption here. Don't think you really have a handle onissues of covariance, so I think your bankroll is about 14k (max bet just over 1% of bankroll). Your playing a safe 1/4 jelly (actually less once you clarify your true 5 max bet. Your style is essentially play all.

What doesn't make sense, assuming a $5 unit, is 1 hand of $60, or 2 hands of $75. Looks like a reasonably decent game, especially if surrender is offered. If surrender is offered, then I think you have a plus EV game at a lower spread. If tolerance is low, you can do so. If tolerance is high, you have room to start blasting. If everyone is happy with the status quo, then continue.

Continue practicing your deck estimation. Since you essentially play all, expand your range if index play. Once you gain additional knowledge, and if tolerance up is high, increase your spread.

**stopgambling** · 01-11-2016, 09:22 AM

No surrender is offered ,Freight .

To the OP make sure it is 80% pen ,or very close to otherwise it is a bad game.

**BoSox** · 01-11-2016, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jc3

I Don't really do much wonging unless the running count heads south of -10.

No disrespect intended Jc3, but I really think you need to study up on running counts and how they relate with true counts, and remaining unseen decks. When you do understand, you will realize your quote I pasted is totally impossible for anyone to figure out how to help you.

**ZeeBabar** · 01-11-2016, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by BoSox

No disrespect intended Jc3, but I really think you need to study up on running counts and how they relate with true counts, and remaining unseen decks. When you do understand, you will realize your quote I pasted is totally impossible for anyone to figure out how to help you.

Bosox, some of us have no choice but to play all (taking strategic breaks but not entirely wonging out) because casinos may not be available to move to. You drive 3-4 hours to get to a place where there is just 1 casino and it has crowded tables. You get a seat, you do not want to relinquish. I play at such a $10 min. table from time to time (if the only DD game is crowded). I play one hand of $10 for all counts under TC1, go to 2 hands of $20 at TC2 all the way up to 2x$90 as max bet reached at TC+4. You can win doing that.

**Romes** · 01-11-2016, 01:05 PM

I hope you notice... If you plug in the rules to the game you provided to any house edge calculator the HE is over .5%... .57% to be more precise (assuming split to 4 hands, NS, etc).

Unless you've specifically simmed this game, each true count is generically about .5% for the player. This means at TC +1 the HE is still .07% in favor of the casino. Unless you're betting for cover, you should be upping your bet at TC +2. Otherwise you're losing a lot of money.

Also, in today's games (especially the 6D H17 above) you should really be trying to get your Max Bet out around TC +4. It'll do wonders for your EV =P. I don't know if you did it intentionally or not, but I LOVE the hike in bet from TC +2 to TC +3, as TC +3 is the most valuable of all the TC's due to it's frequency.

**Norm** · 01-11-2016, 03:05 PM

Keep in mind that the .5% per TC is a rough estimate and most calculators relate to basic strategy, not card counting.

**Three** · 01-11-2016, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

Bosox, some of us have no choice but to play all (taking strategic breaks but not entirely wonging out) because casinos may not be available to move to. You drive 3-4 hours to get to a place where there is just 1 casino and it has crowded tables. You get a seat, you do not want to relinquish. I play at such a $10 min. table from time to time (if the only DD game is crowded). I play one hand of $10 for all counts under TC1, go to 2 hands of $20 at TC2 all the way up to 2x$90 as max bet reached at TC+4. You can win doing that.

Why would you want to play such conditions? It is a recipe for high variance and losing money.

**BoSox** · 01-11-2016, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

Keep in mind that the .5% per TC is a rough estimate and most calculators relate to basic strategy, not card counting.

Norm, could you show a few calculations of how this applies when it does involve card counting.

**Freightman** · 01-11-2016, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Romes

I hope you notice... If you plug in the rules to the game you provided to any house edge calculator the HE is over .5%... .57% to be more precise (assuming split to 4 hands, NS, etc).

Unless you've specifically simmed this game, each true count is generically about .5% for the player. This means at TC +1 the HE is still .07% in favor of the casino. Unless you're betting for cover, you should be upping your bet at TC +2. .

Don't quite agree. Assuming the simulator is based on floored results, the true 1 bucket contains results for true 1.00 to 1.99. So, for the sale of argument, true 1.5 yields an advantage, and should be capitalized on.

Example, heads up after 1 hand if a 6 deck shoe, RC is 6. There is no advantage, so, a raise to 2 units Is essentially trading variance with the house. At RC 9, there is a clear advantage, and justifies a larger bet.

**Jc3** · 01-11-2016, 07:25 PM

Hey bosox, sorry for the way that seemed to be articulated and by no means did I take it as disrespect, thanks for the reply. To clarify I fully understand the true count and how it relates to unseen decks.