Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 14

Thread: Hole card or no hole card

  1. 12-20-2015, 10:29 PM #1
    pjsomers
    pjsomers is offline
    Junior Member pjsomers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Cranbourne Nth Victoria Australia
    Posts
    5

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Hole card or no hole card

    Which is more advantageous to the player when there is no surrender, hole card or no hole card?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  2. 12-21-2015, 05:27 AM #2
    Three
    Three is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    3rd rock from Sol, Milky Way Galaxy
    Posts
    14,158

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I think your question is worded poorly. Two of the 3 choices are bad for the player. Only hole card bears no penalty. I am nostrum what you meant to ask.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  3. 12-21-2015, 07:29 AM #3
    BJGenius007
    BJGenius007 is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,937

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by pjsomers View Post
    Which is more advantageous to the player when there is no surrender, hole card or no hole card?
    Hole card is better than no hole card whether players can surrender or not. With no hole card, players will lose ALL bets if dealer has BJ.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  4. 12-21-2015, 07:32 AM #4
    ZenMaster_Flash
    ZenMaster_Flash is offline
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    "NHC" [No hole card] is always disadvantageous IF the dealer "takes all"

    upon getting a blackjack;     (as in "ENHC") as that alters your Basic Strategy.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  5. 12-21-2015, 07:33 AM #5
    Freightman
    Freightman is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    9,866

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    Hole card is better than no hole card whether players can surrender or not. With no hole card, players will lose ALL bets if dealer has BJ.
    There is a fundamental error here. Your statement is correct for ENHC, but is in wrong for NHC. My jurisdiction plays NHC rules, and I guarantee that only original bets are lost on dealer BJ.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  6. 12-21-2015, 07:34 AM #6
    ZenMaster_Flash
    ZenMaster_Flash is offline
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    "With no hole card, players will lose ALL bets if dealer has BJ."
    NOT everywhere. I do not know about Australia.

    It is the European rule ~ ergo the "E" in "ENHC"
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  7. 12-21-2015, 08:52 AM #7
    DSchles
    DSchles is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,142

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Short answer: if you lose all doubled and split bets to a dealer's natural, then no hole card subtracts 0.11% from the basic strategy player's edge. If you don't lose all, it makes no difference whatsoever.

    Don
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  8. 12-21-2015, 08:53 AM #8
    DSchles
    DSchles is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,142

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Actually, one comment: it makes no difference for the BS player. It does matter for the counter, because it wastes cards and hurts penetration slightly for everyone to play out his hand only to see the dealer pull a natural at the end, instead of at the beginning of the round.

    Don
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  9. 12-21-2015, 09:03 AM #9
    BJGenius007
    BJGenius007 is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,937

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Short answer: if you lose all doubled and split bets to a dealer's natural, then no hole card subtracts 0.11% from the basic strategy player's edge. If you don't lose all, it makes no difference whatsoever.

    Don
    That is correct. I assume the OP would lose all bets if dealer has natural. Otherwise, if dealer pushes back other bets, it is the same as hole card, why ask the question.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  10. 12-21-2015, 11:06 AM #10
    DSchles
    DSchles is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,142

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    "Otherwise, if dealer pushes back other bets, it is the same as hole card, why ask the question."

    You're asking why someone might ask a particular question on this site???!!!

    Don
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  11. 12-21-2015, 11:15 AM #11
    ZenMaster_Flash
    ZenMaster_Flash is offline
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    r.t.f.l.m.a.o.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  12. 12-21-2015, 01:13 PM #12
    AndretheGiant
    AndretheGiant is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    heaven or hell
    Posts
    244

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Freightman where is your jurisdiction that plays nhc rules ?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  13. 12-21-2015, 02:20 PM #13
    ZenMaster_Flash
    ZenMaster_Flash is offline
    Banned or Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Eastern U S A
    Posts
    6,830

    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    Canada is NHC in many Western provinces.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Forum Rules

Other QFIT Sites

Internal Links

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.