Dealer H17 Confusion

[houyi]

Hello all,

I recently played at a casino a bit off the beaten path and found an interesting opportunity. A few dealers seem to have a good bit of trouble understanding what constitutes a soft vs. hard 17. To illustrate using a (slightly changed) example from when I played:

I had an 11, dealer showed a 6. I double, catch a 4 for 15. Dealer turns over a 10 in the hole for 16, then pulls an Ace for a hard 17. I wince but notice the dealer pausing as if considering something. Something clicks in my head and I yell, "C'mon! Nine! Nine!" Dealer pulls a 7 and then a 10 to bust.

I had a few other opportunities to pull this sort of stunt and realized I could completely control the dealer during this sort of situation. Anyway, dealer ended their shift, but I know their schedule and intend to come back when I have the chance.

A few points:

1) Can anyone quantify what kind of advantage this gives me? I ironically was never in a position where the dealer had a two-card S17, so I am unsure if they would be controllable in this instance as well or if it was only instances with several cards that happened to have an Ace where they could be controlled. Calculations for both would be helpful, or if there is any literature beyond "the Book" that could assist me with this, I would be glad to hear it.

2) Any other general advice based on your own experiences (how to properly milk this, how long probably before the dealer gets fixed assuming I don't pull the stunt in front of bosses, etc.?)

Thanks in advance,
Houyi

[Blitzkrieg]

When the dealer dealt the 7 it was a bust, there was no need to draw the ten. It could work in your favor if you have a newbie dealer but it could also go against you in that the dealer could draw a 4 for a 21, or a 3 for a 20. Will you cry to the floor if such a situation happens to where it does not go in your favor if you confuse the dealer?

[stopgambling]

you could lose a lot of brownie points too. then the dealer will REMEMBER YOU!

[BJprive]

this thread is literally just a dealer error hitting on H17 lol.

[houyi]

When the dealer dealt the 7 it was a bust, there was no need to draw the ten. It could work in your favor if you have a newbie dealer but it could also go against you in that the dealer could draw a 4 for a 21, or a 3 for a 20. Will you cry to the floor if such a situation happens to where it does not go in your favor if you confuse the dealer?

The dealer responded to my prompting. I would stop them in cases where I beat 17. There would never be a situation where they could draw a 3 to beat my 19. The 7 would have busted them, yes, but for the play to work they needed to believe they had S17, and so they drew again.

[Stealth]

I had an 11, dealer showed a 6. I double, catch a 4 for 15. Dealer turns over a 10 in the hole for 16, then pulls an Ace for a hard 17. I wince but notice the dealer pausing as if considering something. Something clicks in my head and I yell, "C'mon! Nine! Nine!" Dealer pulls a 7 and then a 10 to bust.

I think you confused the story because the dealer busted with the 7 and likely did not hit his 23 with a 10.

The Stand rule is worth about .2 for the game and your improved advantage would be proportional to the number of times H17 vs S17 decision occurred and was influenced versus the number of times it occurs overall. A more definitive answer can be found with CVData but it is not going to be a big improvement.

[houyi]

I think you confused the story because the dealer busted with the 7 and likely did not hit his 23 with a 10.

The Stand rule is worth about .2 for the game and your improved advantage would be proportional to the number of times H17 vs S17 decision occurred and was influenced versus the number of times it occurs overall. A more definitive answer can be found with CVData but it is not going to be a big improvement.

Perhaps I did not explain this properly. Yes, I am aware that the dealer had a hard 17, and yes, they would have busted with a 7. But the point is I realized they didn't understand that they had a hard 17. In the mind of the dealer, they had a S17, so the 7 wouldn't have busted them. The advantage isn't that the dealer would just stand, the advantage was that I could essentially choose when hitting on S17 would be advantageous.