When to Wong in and out

[DSchles]

Yes.

[DSchles]

"If the house edge is better for a player using BS only, does this also mean the edge is better for a counter. In other words, is it possible for a game with a worse HE to have a better SCORE because someone is counting?"

Shouldn't be. Virtually all common rules "explode" and are worth more to the counter than they are to the BS player. Surrender, for example, worth only 0.07 to the BS player in the shoe game, can be worth triple to quadruple to the high-spreading counter.

Don

[Bigdaddy]

"Keep in mind that the optimum Wong-out point is highly dependent on penetration."

No, it is very mildly dependent on penetration.

"The deeper the pen, the later the Wong-out point."

Just barely.

"In cases of excellent penetration such as 7.5/8 or 5.5/6, the optimum Wong-out point is not -1. It's probably in the -3 or -4 range."

That is almost certainly not true.

Don

Don - thanks for your reply on this. I must be having trouble with the assumptions and/or the use of the Wong-out feature on the CVData software.

I set up the game/rules as: 8 deck, DOA, DAS, S17, LS, Complete Hi-Lo with full indexes (per CVData tables), 1-15 spread and 7.5/8 penetration, 400M rounds sim. I set the Wong-out feature on the betting page to start at shuffle and stop at the designated TC (per below). I also set it to Wong-out at any time (no restrictions). Here are the SCOREs I got at the various Wong-out points:

Play all: 74.99, W/O @ -1: 20.27, W/O @ -2: 59.40, W/O @ -3: 74.24, W/O @ -4: 79.00, W/O @ -5: 81.46, W/O @ -6: 82.32, W/O @ -7: 79.44

Then if I adjust the penetration on this game to 6/8 I get the following results:

Play all: 13.68, W/O @ -1: 9.85, W/O @ -2: 21.16, W/O @ -3: 21.08, W/O @ -4: 18.96


Am I using the Wong-out feature correctly? I presume not...Maybe Norm can set me straight...

Thx

[Norm]

I don't reall yunderstand what you are saying. But, there are a vast number of variables involved in any sim. Also, you must hit the Call CVCX button to calculated the optimal bets as they are different when wonging.

[Bigdaddy]

I don't reall yunderstand what you are saying. But, there are a vast number of variables involved in any sim. Also, you must hit the Call CVCX button to calculated the optimal bets as they are different when wonging.

Thanks Norm -

I re-ran the sims and called CVCX for spread optimization. My conclusion remains the same.

The optimum Wong-out point for the game in question (8-deck, 7.5/8, DOA, DAS, S17, LS, Complete Hi-Lo, 1-15 spread) is in the -5 to -6 range. Furthermore, the sims show that it would be a huge mistake to Wong-out at -1.

I realize there are a lot of other variables and settings that need to be considered in the sims, but I don't think tweaking any of them will change this big picture here.

[DSchles]

You're doing something grotesquely wrong. You don't understand the nature of the endeavor. It took a team of about eight people months and months to research this project. The finest programmers and mathematicians -- all documented in chapter 13 -- worked forever to find the right way to do this. You can't get the answer by running a sim on CVCX!!!

You aren't considering the alternative of leaving the table you're at and starting afresh at a new one, whose remaining e.v. from that point on, is greater than the e.v. of staying at the table you're playing. Please don't try to reinvent the wheel here.

Don

[Bigdaddy]

Ok - agreed -

I figured I wasn't approaching this right. I was certainly looking at it in a vacuum (i.e., forced to play at only one game).

Thanks for your review and advice.


had something wrong.