Side Bet and Spreading Question.

[lij45o6]

Hey guys, So, I recently stumbled upon a recent side bet and it aroused my interest in a way that made my little CC brain jump. The side bet seems to weigh larger value cards more than the others in the deck: Bad Beat Blackjack: The object is to be beaten by the dealer when you have a 'pat' hand. Ex: you have an A,8. The dealer then shows a 10,10. You will then win 15 to 1 on the side bet. Here is the schedule: 19-19, 20,20, 21-21 (Push) win 5:1; 19-20 or 21 (Lose) win 15:1; 20 Loses to natural and unnatural 21's 25:1. 10,9 and A,8 both count as 19. Side bet is not suite dependent. 10,10 and A,9 both count as 20. Blackjacks are given. The side bet is for the first two cards only. So, if you double A,8 against a 6 in 6D, you will lose the side bet. If 19, 20, and 21 are made on the first two cards for the player, and the dealer does not beat you, then it is considered a push. For the life of me, I cannot find out how to weigh each card value. Anyone have some experience with this side bet or could give me some insight on how to evaluate it? Second question. Spreading to two hands means that you should bet 70% of what you would originally bet if single-handed. Ex: Your ramp calls for a 10 spread on 6D. Two handed allows a 7 spread with the same winrate. Correct? If this is true, then three-handed allows at least 50-55% on each hand relative to the original spread. In this case, each hand would spread to 5 units at max bet. Correct?

[Three]

Second question. Spreading to two hands means that you should bet 70% of what you would originally bet if single-handed. Ex: Your ramp calls for a 10 spread on 6D. Two handed allows a 7 spread with the same winrate. Correct? If this is true, then three-handed allows at least 50-55% on each hand relative to the original spread. In this case, each hand would spread to 5 units at max bet. Correct?

Betting 73% (most round to 75%) of the one spot bet on each of 2 spots has the same RoR as the one spot bet. So a ramp of 1x10 to 1x100 would have the same RoR as a top bet of 2x75. Now win rate is a different story. Heads up there is little difference between the 2 spot alternative and the one spot by it with other players at the table 2 spots is better. Anymore or fewer hands with other players hurts you. There are reasons to bet 3 hands but they are pretty specific. Like you can't get enough money on the table with 2 hands due to table max or you know a card is coming and you want to have better odds of catching it. Those kinds of things.

[Freightman]

Hey guys, So, I recently stumbled upon a recent side bet and it aroused my interest in a way that made my little CC brain jump. The side bet seems to weigh larger value cards more than the others in the deck: Bad Beat Blackjack: The object is to be beaten by the dealer when you have a 'pat' hand. Ex: you have an A,8. The dealer then shows a 10,10. You will then win 15 to 1 on the side bet. Here is the schedule: 19-19, 20,20, 21-21 (Push) win 5:1; 19-20 or 21 (Lose) win 15:1; 20 Loses to natural and unnatural 21's 25:1. 10,9 and A,8 both count as 19. Side bet is not suite dependent. 10,10 and A,9 both count as 20. Blackjacks are given. The side bet is for the first two cards only. So, if you double A,8 against a 6 in 6D, you will lose the side bet. If 19, 20, and 21 are made on the first two cards for the player, and the dealer does not beat you, then it is considered a push. For the life of me, I cannot find out how to weigh each card value. Anyone have some experience with this side bet or could give me some insight on how to evaluate it? Second question. Spreading to two hands means that you should bet 70% of what you would originally bet if single-handed. Ex: Your ramp calls for a 10 spread on 6D. Two handed allows a 7 spread with the same winrate. Correct? If this is true, then three-handed allows at least 50-55% on each hand relative to the original spread. In this case, each hand would spread to 5 units at max bet. Correct?

This intrigues me, but I'll not get to this until later today or tomorrow - primarily because im in my shorts watching Judge Judy. In the meanwhile, what is the main bet spread allowed - what is the side bet min and max - is there a house rule governing the ratio of the side bet to the main bet.

[lij45o6]

@T3: Thanks. Was curious. Is there any way I could get these "specifics" on the 3-handed rule(s)? @Freight: The max is $1-$50. Betting of unequal amounts is permissible, as per the gaming commission in the state where the bet operates. Ex: 10 on main blackjack bet and 50 on the side bet. That kind of thing. Edit: a #.

[Freightman]

@T3: Thanks. Was curious. Is there any way I could get these "specifics" on the 3-handed rule(s)? @Freight: The max is $1-$50. Betting of unequal amounts is permissible, as per the gaming commission in the state where the bet operates. Ex: 10 on main blackjack bet and 50 on the side bet. That kind of thing. Edit: a #.

A bit unclear, I think you're essentially saying - the salient point being that regardless of main bet amount, you may bet anything you want in the sidebet between $1 and $50.

[lij45o6]

A bit unclear, I think you're essentially saying - the salient point being that regardless of main bet amount, you may bet anything you want in the sidebet between $1 and $50.

Correct.

[Dog Hand]

Hey guys, So, I recently stumbled upon a recent side bet and it aroused my interest in a way that made my little CC brain jump. The side bet seems to weigh larger value cards more than the others in the deck: Bad Beat Blackjack: The object is to be beaten by the dealer when you have a 'pat' hand. Ex: you have an A,8. The dealer then shows a 10,10. You will then win 15 to 1 on the side bet. Here is the schedule: 19-19, 20,20, 21-21 (Push) win 5:1; 19-20 or 21 (Lose) win 15:1; 20 Loses to natural and unnatural 21's 25:1. 10,9 and A,8 both count as 19. Side bet is not suite dependent. 10,10 and A,9 both count as 20. Blackjacks are given. The side bet is for the first two cards only. So, if you double A,8 against a 6 in 6D, you will lose the side bet. If 19, 20, and 21 are made on the first two cards for the player, and the dealer does not beat you, then it is considered a push. For the life of me, I cannot find out how to weigh each card value. Anyone have some experience with this side bet or could give me some insight on how to evaluate it? <snip>

dogman_1234,

Always nice to see a fellow canine here

How many decks are used?

Is the game S17 or H17?

I assume that pushes on 21 have to be either BJ vs. BJ or multi-card 21 vs. multi-card 21, right? In other words, if you get a BJ and the dealer subsequently draws to 21, you don't get paid for a 21-21... is this correct?

One more question: if you're dealt A-A and split, does the SB

1. go with the first hand,
2. go with both hands (with an additional wager), or
3. go "bye-bye"?

Dog Hand

[Smartblackjack]

Hey guys, So, I recently stumbled upon a recent side bet and it aroused my interest in a way that made my little CC brain jump. The side bet seems to weigh larger value cards more than the others in the deck: Bad Beat Blackjack: The object is to be beaten by the dealer when you have a 'pat' hand. Ex: you have an A,8. The dealer then shows a 10,10. You will then win 15 to 1 on the side bet. Here is the schedule: 19-19, 20,20, 21-21 (Push) win 5:1; 19-20 or 21 (Lose) win 15:1; 20 Loses to natural and unnatural 21's 25:1. 10,9 and A,8 both count as 19. Side bet is not suite dependent. 10,10 and A,9 both count as 20. Blackjacks are given. The side bet is for the first two cards only. So, if you double A,8 against a 6 in 6D, you will lose the side bet. If 19, 20, and 21 are made on the first two cards for the player, and the dealer does not beat you, then it is considered a push. For the life of me, I cannot find out how to weigh each card value. Anyone have some experience with this side bet or could give me some insight on how to evaluate it? Second question. Spreading to two hands means that you should bet 70% of what you would originally bet if single-handed. Ex: Your ramp calls for a 10 spread on 6D. Two handed allows a 7 spread with the same winrate. Correct? If this is true, then three-handed allows at least 50-55% on each hand relative to the original spread. In this case, each hand would spread to 5 units at max bet. Correct?

A8 vs a 6 is a coin flip between doubling or staying without the sidebet. In playing blackjack as a business it is 0 gain with a neutral count and zero loss. Never double A8 vs a 6 when betting the side bet. Personally I do not double A8 vs a 6 because that play raises a lot of eyebrows when you win it and it is totally neutral.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[lij45o6]

dogman_1234, Always nice to see a fellow canine here How many decks are used? Is the game S17 or H17? I assume that pushes on 21 have to be either BJ vs. BJ or multi-card 21 vs. multi-card 21, right? In other words, if you get a BJ and the dealer subsequently draws to 21, you don't get paid for a 21-21... is this correct? One more question: if you're dealt A-A and split, does the SB

1. go with the first hand,
2. go with both hands (with an additional wager), or
3. go "bye-bye"?

Dog Hand

Hello Dog Hand,

For your first question: It can be played with 2D or 6D. Here, the rules are for 6 deck.

Second Question: Hit on all soft 17. H17. If the player gets a blackjack, ( a 2 card 21,) and the dealer draws a 21, that is a push and pays 5:1 on the side bet. The player and the dealer push on the original bet and pays 0:1. If the player gets a blackjack and the dealer does not have a blackjack, it is a push on the side bet and the player is paid 3:2 on the main bet. Even when there are multiple people at the table and the dealer /may/ have a chance to draw later in the round, the player will see their blackjack discarded and will not have a chance to push a natural 21 against a dealer unnatural 21,( a multi-card 21.)

As per the Gaming Commission: it was relayed to the house that a player forfeits the side bet when they:

1.) Draw a new card
2.) Split similar cards ex: splitting 10's
3.) Double down (see 1.)
4.) Do not qualify with a 2 card 19, 20, or 21

So, even with the example of the 2 Aces, since the initial value of your hand at the beginning was less than 19, you lose the side bet and cannot call upon the side bet until the next round after the dealer draws. In your case, ( with the examples given) the side bet will go "bye-bye". as you put it.

@Freight: Have you had any time to analyse the game? Was curious if you had any results. If not, ( due to outside commitments,) I understand.

[lij45o6]

A8 vs a 6 is a coin flip between doubling or staying without the sidebet. In playing blackjack as a business it is 0 gain with a neutral count and zero loss. Never double A8 vs a 6 when betting the side bet. Personally I do not double A8 vs a 6 because that play raises a lot of eyebrows when you win it and it is totally neutral.

Interesting.

I don't understand why you are afraid of doubling A,8 vs 6? Considering, even when the advantage is close to 0, the risk of playing suboptimal takes away any advantage in the long run. If that is the case for A,8; then A,7 should give you the same look. Considering the fact that the casino and players would think you have a "made" hand of 18, even though you and I know that this is not the case. You will see punters standing on A,7 a lot of the time. Yes, some deviate from the norm ( ie. play perfect BS) but they are possible exceptions. The point is to look like a ploppy at all times, even when making optimal plays during a round.

"Why did you double that 18?"
"Saw a bunch of little cards and figured I could get paint on a draw with lots of money. Need to get some cash back for gas tonight on the trip home!"

Or, something to the effect like that. Don't be afraid of playing right...most of the time casino employees, ploppies, and "wannabe counters" have no clue what is going on. All that is to be known is the prayer to the blackjack gods to bring the turn of a friendly card.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Why did you double that 18?"
"Saw a bunch of little cards and figured I could get paint on a draw with lots of money. Need to get some cash back for gas tonight on the trip home!"

You ALWAYS respond by saying "I (just) play my hunches."

[Dog Hand]

dogman_1234,

Send me an email: doghand21 at yahoo dot com.

Dog Hand

[Bodarc]

Send me an email: doghand21 at yahoo dot com.

dogman_1234

You would be wise to listen to anything Dog Hand tells you.