Is This Cheatinf at Dice?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 10-22-2015, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

"I would suspect after a casino lost 1.5 million on a past posting collusion at the dice tables that they would be even more strict about these kinds of things."

Losing that amount would have an insignificant effect on the "hold"
[as far as the casino's auditors would have been concerned].
The Bellagio is legendary for the stakes that they handle at Craps.

**Three** · 10-22-2015, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

Losing that amount would have an insignificant effect on the "hold"
[as far as the casino's auditors would have been concerned].
The Bellagio is legendary for the stakes that they handle at Craps.

I was talking about casinos in general learning from one casino's huge blunder. Whether it was easy to pick off by auditors or not as nothing to do with how long you will spend in jail if you are caught. You must fool a lot more people than simply the auditors as the scammers found out.

**zergy** · 10-22-2015, 11:29 AM

I have had casinos offer to allow me to move my don't pass bet to the pass line after a point has been established. How nice of them!

**Three** · 10-22-2015, 11:35 AM

They really need a sarcasm emoticon.

RS · 10-22-2015, 01:05 PM

If you're gonna do it, I'd be very careful. Perhaps figure out a way to have the dealers place the bet for you (ie: you're blind, drop chips, say "don't pass"). Probably still not technically legal, though.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 10-22-2015, 01:59 PM

Tthree,

Perhaps no sarcasm was intended. L.O.L.

zergy may have failed to grasp the humor.

**mofungoo** · 10-23-2015, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Norm

Clearly you can have different rules. But, you can't break the rules. As for making a pass bet after the point is made -- the casino should suggest you move it to a come bet.

One can make a pass bet at any time. If one puts the bet across the line it is the same as place betting the point number. Why make a come bet which would result in a different point number for the come bettor, unless the shooter 7's out. Make the bet that pays odds, and make the come bet also if desired.

However, the OP is about don't pass bets, which cannot be posted legally once a point is established.

**Norm** · 10-23-2015, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by mofungoo

One can make a pass bet at any time. If one puts the bet across the line it is the same as place betting the point number.

You can always bet the point number. You get odds when you do that. Make a pass bet after the point is made and you'll get screwed on the odds.

**Norm** · 10-23-2015, 08:26 AM

Of course it's not cheating for a player, ignorant of the rules, to follow the advice of a dealer. I don't think that was the question.

**Blitzkrieg** · 10-23-2015, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tthree

They could take the bet and refuse to pay it if it won because it was an illegal bet. You would here, "We could get a huge fine for paying an illegal bet" or "Our superiors don't know there is no collision we could get fired for paying it". Past posting bets is illegal whether they book the bet or not. Before the dice leave a players hand they call no more bets, usually they call no more bets before the player gets the dice. A bet can be booked by an answer of "bet" from the boxman or dealer while the dice are in the air but once they hit the table they are not supposed to call 'Bet" but rather "no bet" should be the call. I would suspect after a casino lost 1.5 million on a past posting collusion at the dice tables that they would be even more strict about these kinds of things.

It's ultimately up the boxman if they decide to pay a bet or not if the bet came in late or the dice are in the air. The house isn't going to cry foul over a late bet, they'll just inform players to get the bets in faster while the stick has to inform the table that, "all bets are set." The craps crews where I play at DO NOT accept bets while the dice are in the air. Everybody should understand that. That is a clear "no bet."

I have no sympathy for the Bellagio, the way I see it, they deserved to lose that 1.5 million and I hope that they don't get it back. Their employees need more training. That also tells me a lot about their personnel working the games in their craps pits. They are complete idiots to have let such a scam go on for so long without an honest boxman or dealer picking up on it. If I would have been the boxman/dealer working that crews games they would have never gotten away with it. Unfortunately that's what happens when people who don't really know the games are working the games. They have their heads up their asses.

**Blitzkrieg** · 10-23-2015, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

NOTE: A "HOP BET" can be made on every roll and at any time.

That is not completely true. The house is not going to let a player make a hop bet while the dice are in the air ZMF. That is a clear "no bet." I tend to play craps alone on the table most of the time and they will let a solo player make hop bets while they are holding the dice in their fingers without any chips hitting the felt as a "call bet," the house will book that bet but they won't do it while dice are in mid air.

**Norm** · 10-23-2015, 09:03 AM

Don't think that's what he meant. In any case, if you throw a chip to the dealer at a crowded table and call a hop bet while the dice are in the air, he may take it.