I can't fight this battle any more.

[KJ]

Freightman: I wish you would stop with your 3rd grade “knockout blows”, “the winner is” and “down for the count” bullshit. You are a instigator on this site. More or less a “zengifter”. I rarely see you contribute anything constructive.

Freightman, I can assure you that I am doing anything but treading water. This year will be my third, 6 figure year of my last four years. Even including the one really subpar year last year, I will earn some where north of $420K over the last 4 years. I know it's a little early to be putting the wraps on the year, but I have had such a nice year, that I have cut my playing time in about half over the final 4 months, enjoying extra time off and am sort of 'coasting' to the finish line.

Now $400+ thousand over 4 years isn't a great deal of money. It doesn't put me among the elite of card counters. Guys like SCG and Grosjean, and Chaperone (BJ21), probably bigplayer and I am sure others that I don't know their levels of play, can make that in ONE good year.

But at my level of play, my results are pretty good. I must be doing SOMETHING right!

So yeah, I get beat up on this site because my approach of simplicity is in the minority here. But most players making a living from blackjack are in the 'simplicity' camp, NOT stuck in this time warp of 1990's where higher level counts and hundred of index plays are the way to go. Unfortunately most of those professional level players have either stopped participating on this site or just don't care to waste their energy on this topic anymore. So I am left to looking like I am in the minority (and getting beat up).

The concept of higher level counts and hundreds of index plays is just outdated. That is the mentality left over from the 1980's and 90's, which I guess most of this vocal little group is old guys from that era, stuck in the past, so their views are not surprising. But it's just NOT the way to attack the games of 2015 and teaching this outdated style is not preparing newer players for the games of today or tomorrow.

Card counting today's game, and surely tomorrow requires much less of that higher count and index play and more the simplistic approach of get in, get the money down and get out, while keeping an eye out for other opportunities. Live to fight another day. It's about working easier for the profits, not squeezing every penny out with the extra effort of diminishing returns.

The only reason I am so passionate about this is because once I started to play at my current levels and began having some success, I vowed to share my experiences and try to help some of the newer guys just like many did for me when I started on the message boards. It really isn't in my best interest to do so, but I feel I owe that.

Ironically, one of those guys that really helped me when I started out was Flash. It was just Flash back then, not some self appointed zenmaster. And Flash, you were a really different guy back then, eager to help new players like myself. I don't want to pick on you, as I know you are going through some health issues, and sincerely wish you the best with that, but now you come across as a cranky old man shouting a lot. (large and bold print on the internet, equates to shouting). You seems to want to tell the world that simplicity doesn't work (calling hi-lo an “ultra weak count”), despite the fact that most professionals have embraced it and found success with it, and then seems to want to recruit and mentor (for a fee?) new players to your approach. This sounds a lot like Lawrence Revere re-incarnated.

T3: I honestly don't know what your agenda is. As near as I can figure, you want to prove you are the smartest man (woman) alive or on this site, I don't know. Good luck with that.

Moses: You seem to be the only person alive that still has access to those good single deck games from the 80's. I suspect very low limits. That makes you unusual. But you better begin to prepare for the games that the rest of us are facing and beating, because that has been, is, and will continue to be the trend. You better prepare for it and stop concentrating on the past.

As for me, I can't take it anymore. I have gone through this a number of times, as you all know and eventually I return because I do have this need to want to share my experiences and help the newer players just as was done for me. But, I can't. The more I participate on this site, the more aggravated I get. And at times, it bleeds over to my personal life.

I won't do that to myself anymore. I am just going to have to accept that this site populated by a bunch of guys stuck living in the past, refusing to adapt to current conditions and unfortunately that means spewing advice that will leave newer players unprepared for games of today and tomorrow. All I can do is hope those newbies effected find their way to another (less voodoo-ish) site or own a time machine.

[Frank Galvin]

KJ,

Although I truly appreciate your level of experience and expertise when it comes to all things Hi-Lo, and the evolution that the current game is undergoing in LV, over the course of the past few months, I have come to accept that you cannot visit this site without engaging certain others in confrontation. I am completely unsurprised that your interactions with other users here has been causing you considerable stress and aggravation. I suspect that that stress and aggravation are traveling upon a two-way street, and it is not only spilling over into your personal life, but that issues in your personal life are being aired, directly or indirectly into your posts on this site. To me, that is very unfortunate. If you believe that it is for the best that you not return here, I am disappointed, but understand that you must do what is best for you. However, I will continue to look for your posts over on Stanford and Al's forum.

Life is too short to allow others to get your blood pressure up, or to participate in heated discussions in which neither side will be persuaded. As the Borg from Star Trek TNG so simply stated, resistance is futile (as are many other things in life). So please take care of your physical and mental health. I will miss your postings, comments and suggestions here, but will keep my eyes open to viewing your thoughts elsewhere.

Aloha ‘oe.

[Avincow]

KJ, you are the most relatable and transparent person on this site. I don't know if I believe everything that's been said by others on this site, but if KJ says something I know that it is dependable information. He is the only one who gives quantifiable results of his progress in his career. And he tells stories about his life that are interesting with non-exaggerated details.

[Three]

The concept of higher level counts and hundreds of index plays is just outdated. That is the mentality left over from the 1980's and 90's, which I guess most of this vocal little group is old guys from that era, stuck in the past, so their views are not surprising. But it's just NOT the way to attack the games of 2015 and teaching this outdated style is not preparing newer players for the games of today or tomorrow.

Card counting today's game, and surely tomorrow requires much less of that higher count and index play and more the simplistic approach of get in, get the money down and get out, while keeping an eye out for other opportunities. Live to fight another day. It's about working easier for the profits, not squeezing every penny out with the extra effort of diminishing returns.

The way I look at it, history went like this. More powerful advanced counts were really killing casinos so they came up with countermeasures. They came up with shoe games. In these games the monetary gain from more advanced/powerful counts was not that near what it used to be. Then as the casino kept making games worse and their edge higher against counters by less penetration (which actually costs the casino more than the counters are taking), worse rules (doubling restrictions, H17, no RSA, etc) and even more decks in the shoe the percentage gain from more advanced systems started to make them worth it again. If the trend continues the simple approach will not even be worth it anymore and more complicated approaches will be the only way worth using to make money unless you can still find games of old. We have seen the pendulum start to swing the other way. Then if you give up counting BJ one of your options is carny games. In most carny games complexity is very, very worthwhile. So you have dedicated your life to not learning to do any more advanced counting techniques. Now you must spend a lot of time learning them or just play with the wildest ride you can imagine to an EV that is a fraction of the EV you would have with a much easier ride to the long run with using the techniques you refused to learn when you were a young easily trained pup. Old dogs can learn new tricks but it tends to be a lot harder.

[Three]

T3: I honestly don't know what your agenda is. As near as I can figure, you want to prove you are the smartest man (woman) alive or on this site, I don't know. Good luck with that.

KJ, you are wrong about how to determine the gain from something. Gain can be found in a lot of different stats. The only way to define the gain is to keep all stats static except one. That allows all gain to show up as a change in that stat and thereby be quantified accurately. I am not sure why you stick to your guns so long. This is a very very basic concept. I am sure you know I am right but I am not sure why you have something in you that won't let you admit it. This is the source of your frustration.

These debates reveal a lot of useful information for people as was shown by a comment in the latest thread. If you want to educate people these debates are some of the best sources. Both sides respectfully presenting their case while revealing the building blocks that brings them to their conclusion. Well in the latest thread you just said you can't do that and a lot of opinions but nothing to back it up. But that is usually not the case. I suggest you simply find a stopping point before you get to frustrated or deal with the internal source of your frustration. A web site were everyone agrees isn't going to educate people very much. They may learn one narrow point of view very well but they will not have a well rounded education. The fact is there are a number of people that make more using spreads that the casino isn't afraid of with a much easier swings to endure having plays and bets that confuse many of the counter catchers. If you could do this I am sure you would. At least you are smart enough to find what works for you and stick to it and find ways to add to it. Everyone should be like that. That doesn't mean everyone should use your methods you use to be like that.

I hope you return again.You are a valuable contributor to the site. Most people would fit your mold rather the the less taken path others have taken. Some took this path and got lost in the woods and had to take the more traveled path but others do extremely well using the less travelled path.

[Norm]

For the ninth time, post or don't post. You have a very long history of repeatedly leaving this site and multiple other sites, for various reasons. You stated today that you left BJ21. You have a long history of taking disagreement with your positions as attacks. You have sent me PMs that have accused me of all manner of nefarious or disgusting behavior and mental impairment. You can’t seem to take a position without insulting a person that doesn’t fully agree.

I have to tell you that you seem unable to gracefully admit that everything you believe and say is not gold-plated and that other people have other opinions. You criticize everyone, yet cannot accept criticism.

You have displayed the ability to contribute and many of your posts are clearly of value. But, IMHO, you would be a more contented person if you just accepted the fact that not everyone thinks the same way, has the same mental attributes, uses the same AP strategies, has the same goals, lives in the same environment, and has the same resources as you.

[Freightman]

KJ
nobody disputes your ability to make a decent living playing cards, or your many contributions to the site. Now, I'm going to say a few things you're not going to like.

Your current temper tantrum, one in a long list, is primarily due to your Jstat mentality of everyone is wrong and I am right. You got outgunned, with logic and not tantrums, because you beat a dead horse, and let's be frank - because of your 1 man crusade against Tthree, and to a lesser extent, me. Nobody disputes your ability to make a living, or your contributions, however, you continually display an attitude lacking in maturity. If there is something going on in your life, then deal with it - or grow up - or both. While you're at it, don't justify your attitude with this I take the high road crap - you take plenty of cheap shots yourself, explaining it as - just kidding - justifying that with your liberal use of emoticons, as if that should Explain it all - a teenager approach.

So, here we are once again at a familiar juncture. I'll say what I said before - quit, don't quit, I really don't give a shit. You're making this entirely to personal, looking like an idiot in the process. Keeps coming back to the maturity issue.

Now, you were there - you saw the bullshit fly back and forth, some if it pretty damn disgusting. Moldy and me - you have to admit - The thread in question is a love tap, a pin prick, nothing, zero, nada, compared to those battles.

Nobody says your thoughts and approach is not valid - it's certainly good for you, but it takes all types to make this world, and you can't seem to get that through your head.

[moses]

1.) Now $400+ thousand over 4 years isn't a great deal of money. It doesn't put me among the elite of card counters. Guys like SCG and Grosjean, and Chaperone (BJ21), probably bigplayer and I am sure others that I don't know their levels of play, can make that in ONE good year.

2.) But at my level of play, my results are pretty good. I must be doing SOMETHING right!

3.) So yeah, I get beat up on this site because my approach of simplicity is in the minority here. But most players making a living from blackjack are in the 'simplicity' camp, NOT stuck in this time warp of 1990's where higher level counts and hundred of index plays are the way to go. Unfortunately most of those professional level players have either stopped participating on this site or just don't care to waste their energy on this topic anymore. So I am left to looking like I am in the minority (and getting beat up).

4.) The concept of higher level counts and hundreds of index plays is just outdated. That is the mentality left over from the 1980's and 90's, which I guess most of this vocal little group is old guys from that era, stuck in the past, so their views are not surprising. But it's just NOT the way to attack the games of 2015 and teaching this outdated style is not preparing newer players for the games of today or tomorrow.

5.) Card counting today's game, and surely tomorrow requires much less of that higher count and index play and more the simplistic approach of get in, get the money down and get out, while keeping an eye out for other opportunities. Live to fight another day. It's about working easier for the profits, not squeezing every penny out with the extra effort of diminishing returns.

6.) The only reason I am so passionate about this is because once I started to play at my current levels and began having some success, I vowed to share my experiences and try to help some of the newer guys just like many did for me when I started on the message boards. It really isn't in my best interest to do so, but I feel I owe that.

7.) T3: I honestly don't know what your agenda is. As near as I can figure, you want to prove you are the smartest man (woman) alive or on this site, I don't know. Good luck with that.

8.) Moses: You seem to be the only person alive that still has access to those good single deck games from the 80's. I suspect very low limits. That makes you unusual. But you better begin to prepare for the games that the rest of us are facing and beating, because that has been, is, and will continue to be the trend. You better prepare for it and stop concentrating on the past.

9.) As for me, I can't take it anymore. I have gone through this a number of times, as you all know and eventually I return because I do have this need to want to share my experiences and help the newer players just as was done for me. But, I can't. The more I participate on this site, the more aggravated I get. And at times, it bleeds over to my personal life.

10.) I won't do that to myself anymore. I am just going to have to accept that this site populated by a bunch of guys stuck living in the past, refusing to adapt to current conditions and unfortunately that means spewing advice that will leave newer players unprepared for games of today and tomorrow. All I can do is hope those newbies effected find their way to another (less voodoo-ish) site or own a time machine.

Good article KJ. I will respond by selected paragraph's in order of which you had written.

1.) Last count that I remember reading this was a subpar year for you. It seemed as though Zeebaber was running very close in overall margin of profit YTD. Thus I was asking myself "what is wrong with this Hi Lo picture?"

2.) Your approach, at least the from what you write, reads as a horse handicapper saying "I only bet gray horses." Really, how do you decide when to bet a gray horse? Uh, when I see one?

3.) You can definately pencil me in for simplicity. Why would you let what other players say/do on this site bother you? Especially, if you're knocking down $100k on average annually. I admit Flash got in my head for awhile and it affected my game. But also pushed me to work harder and become a better player. And no, I'm not about to state my income from any investment endeavors.

4.) My research for single deck indicates there is alot of noise about nothing regarding most index plays. But I'm a believer in bringing my best game which requires the best PE and BC my mind can perform. Your statement that basically anything written in the 70-80s is garbage in relation to todays game is so strong. However, sometimes I wonder if their point was to help other players or sell books.

5.) Ditto. But you've had $20K losses in a day...playing blackjack.

6.) To whom did you make this vow? I mean. so what if a newbie chooses to take on VAPC, Hi Opt II, and even Tarzan if that's the direction they choose. Are you serious that in Double Deck - Hi Lo with Ill 18 is the best way to go? That must smart went Zee reports a loss in 9 out 10 sessions and most of his profits for the year. Perhaps the "you can lead a horse to water approach" would be less taxing on your nerves. I learned long ago when raising my kids, I can't save the world or even my kids. Sometimes you just have to close your eyes and flinch.

7.) I always figured he/she was employed by the forum in some manner.

8.) I concur. Someone once asks me if I planned on writing a book. There is only like 8 people left to sell it too. In the end of every investment endeavor, there is me, my time, and my money. I don't worry about the overall scope in the future of blackjack. Today's is enough. The CFL and WNBA would take precedence over the double deck game in Vegas in my overall plan.

9.) And why do this to yourself? You're knockin down $100k a year playing a game that you don't even have to practice at or improve. That's pretty darn good and extremely rare.

10.) The newbies will survive or they won't. Peter Griffen, "the one thing I hate to learn is a lesson."

[Bigdaddy]

KJ -

I'd like to send you a PM (note of encouragement), but was unable to in the Forum system. Let me know if there's another way. If you prefer to be left alone, I appreciate that as well..

Thx

[KJ]

1.) Last count that I remember reading this was a subpar year for you. It seemed as though Zeebaber was running very close in overall margin of profit YTD. Thus I was asking myself "what is wrong with this Hi Lo picture?"

2014 was my subpar year, moses. My disappointing BJ total was 27K which was in the neighborhood of ZeeBabars total. My AP total 48k. 2015 has been strong for me since the first week when I had 5 figure wins in 2 of my first 3 playing days.

In the name of accuracy and just so I am not misleading, the numbers posted earlier were my total AP numbers for the 4 years. Blackjack only accounts for roughly 75% of those numbers.

KJ -

I'd like to send you a PM (note of encouragement), but was unable to in the Forum system. Let me know if there's another way. If you prefer to be left alone, I appreciate that as well..

Thx

No need for 'note of encouragement' bigdaddy, although I appreciate the thought.

However I can be reached at [email protected] (throw-away account, not my personal email)

[stopgambling]

Everybody have different beliefs and approach to thing and that diversity makes thing dynamic . I have benefited from Kj , TThree ,Flash ,Bigplayer , Richard Munchkin and Freightman and Bigjer and a whole long list of our members in very different ways . some give me good info ,while others taught me bj knowledge ,others shared their "wealth" ,give very good advice. So when I read the word battle, I don't think one need to think like that. kj .you have gave good stories and inspiration for a low roller like me .The others knew what they did for me ,and I thanked them here wholeheartedly. most of us here share a common goal ,I believe. Have a good day everyone and GOOD Luck. Oh ,we don't believe in LUCK!

[ZeeBabar]

KJ, I am just a beginner/ part timer restricted by family, location, my job and so, often playing bad games. It's flattering that I am mentioned. Also, because of you and DonS in his response to another posting of mine about my October, I have not quit on HiLo. You inspire me and I follow your postings closely.

i am afraid that sometimes some folks get under another's skin (I get under SCG and a few others on the other site) and then anytime they see a post by that person, it is upsetting. I think Tthree has that effect on you. Norm is correct and so is Tthree and others, your challenge is to not feel you have to defend every newbie from Tthree or others who advocate a more complex count. Tthree and others really believe they are right just as you believe you are. Don't make it a competition between you guys. Remember, Don S or Dr. Wong have not come out on the side of complex counts and most newbie's put more credibility in that.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Ironically, one of those guys that really helped me when I started out was Flash. It was just Flash back then, not some self appointed zenmaster. And Flash, you were a really different guy back then, eager to help new players like myself ... but now you come across as a cranky old man ... You seems to want to tell the world that simplicity doesn't work (calling hi-lo an “ultra weak count”), despite the fact that most professionals have embraced ... and then seems to want to recruit and mentor (for a fee?) new players to your approach. This sounds a lot like Lawrence Revere re-incarnated.

It is a clear falsehood that Professionasl use Hi-Lo; however when one is employing

an advanced AP strategy e.g. Shuffle Tracking, Ace-Locating, Card Eating, (classic)

"Guerrilla Big Player" Team Play, etc. then Hi-Lo is PREFERABLE.

You managed to almost offend me, and I am thick-skinned.

"Crankiness" ? More like you are a callow youth with an I.Q. of 101.

You reference me as " ... some self appointed zenmaster."

Do you even know what a Zen Master is ?

You say that I want to " ... recruit and mentor (for a fee?) ..."

"This sounds a lot like Lawrence Revere re-incarnated."

Revere was a crooked ex- Pit Boss. Enough said.

I have more "students" now then ever before; the majority of which come from this

website, where MOST have spent considerable time following your illogical canon of

"simplicity" and have lost money.

I have never charged anyone a fee. I say that HERE for everyone to see. I tell my

students that I accept a handshake, a "thank you", and a cup of coffee.

Currently I have 5 "active" students whom I train largely via video-chatting by

FaceTime or Skype, (and dozens of former students who seek my advice on occasion.)

I still see students of mine in casinos or at home when I am able to.