Mohegan's Sun, Connecticut

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 10-16-2015, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by mickeymouse

"They did allow resplitting aces in Spanish 21."

Obviously, you are not an Advantage Span21 Player, as if you were you would not

have played as you cannot Split Aces and double (with rescue) or even re-hit them.

**Tarzan** · 10-17-2015, 05:08 AM

You're going to have to allow a panel from the forum decide your next vacation spot so we can all get to hear good news upon your return next time! As far as Oklahoma goes, I've never played there! I driven through stopping only for gas on my way to someplace that does want to charge me $50 an hour to play in addition to their house advantage.

Someone piping up to say "Oh no if you kiss butt and the rain gods are feeling favorable toward you that day you might not have to pay the 50 cent ante in Oklahoma"--- Nope, sorry, forget it! Anyone paying a 50 cent ante to play is a fool. Anyone having to jump through hoops to avoid paying this extra gouge must have a lot more tolerance for bullshit than I also.

Boycott that garbage, throw some public awareness of the extreme gouge this is. Passively sit back and STFU, pay the 50 cent ante long enough and they'll make it 75 cents or a dollar! Don't play it, avoid it, let them know you are avoiding it and think they suck even! Tell them you are contacting the Washington Post in addition to all your friends to tell them how Oklahoma blackjack sucks if you want to get really jiggy with it. Perhaps write a screenplay on Oklahoma rolling and hustling travelers passing through... Much like living next door to Mohegan Sun if I lived in Oklahoma I would be commuting elsewhere to play blackjack.

The gaming industry has a lot of competition these days. There are a lot of good blackjack games out there so why settle for garbage? Your choices are much greater than they were years ago. Here's what I don't get. The casinos that offer better rules on their blackjack games get the lion's share of business. What happens when a casino tightens up their rules and across the state line they have much better rules? Look no further than Trump Plaza for that answer, a mass exodus of blackjack players reducing them to shutting down 80% of their blackjack tables in those last few years as they were going through their death throes. They made all their blackjack tables 8D H17 and the place emptied right out! It was the dumbest move they ever could have made.

**biggg** · 10-17-2015, 09:59 PM

I wish tarzan was right but the fact is, the degenerate dumbass ploppies that play the side bet and give up an extra 1% over the base house edge have no idea about S17 or surrender. I have talked to them, many of them think H17 is better because "the dealer busts more" and surrender is a "sucker play". The ploppies do hate CSMs and would prefer less decks but it's based on "flow of the shoe" arguments not anything around house edge, counting, penetration, etc.

For the smart gambler (not counter) that just wants a fair game and tends to play bigger, rules are important, but here's the catch - casinos don't even want this player around anymore. Foxwoods, for one, has backed these guys off for using too many comps or running too good. At MGM, you can't even get any comps at all for blackjack now unless you ask. I can't even blame the casinos for this one. A decent player only gives up say a quarter percent extra to the house. The mistakes are small, maybe they misplay rare hands like a pair of 3s against a 7 or soft 18. Some of them even less because they'll push their bets up a little if they see small cards come out even if they aren't counting. If they bet 100 a hand the house only makes 50 bucks an hour on these players in a game with good rules. And that's before comps, rooms, free bets, etc. You can do the math, the margins barely cover the cost to operate the table. Much better to just have H17 side bet games with awful 10% HA side bets. The plops lose more on this per hour than the 100 buck player and don't expect any comps (after all they're only betting 20 dollars a hand total!) and in fact many will even pay for the crappy rooms and food they have at caesars properties. Plus the casino saves on monitoring costs against counters.

Of course there is one side effect of this. The plops basically never win whereas the smart gambler has a fighting chance. As a result this type of player is quite a bit more likely to be a repeat customer.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 10-18-2015, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by biggg

"Foxwoods, for one, has backed these guys off for using too many comps or running too good."

Ditto for The Borgata !

**WABJ11** · 10-18-2015, 05:54 PM

I wouldn't go to Twin Rivers. Don't they actively add, and use OSN?

**WABJ11** · 10-18-2015, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by biggg

I wish tarzan was right but the fact is, the degenerate dumbass ploppies that play the side bet and give up an extra 1% over the base house edge have no idea about S17 or surrender. I have talked to them, many of them think H17 is better because "the dealer busts more" and surrender is a "sucker play". The ploppies do hate CSMs and would prefer less decks but it's based on "flow of the shoe" arguments not anything around house edge, counting, penetration, etc.

For the smart gambler (not counter) that just wants a fair game and tends to play bigger, rules are important, but here's the catch - casinos don't even want this player around anymore. Foxwoods, for one, has backed these guys off for using too many comps or running too good. At MGM, you can't even get any comps at all for blackjack now unless you ask. I can't even blame the casinos for this one. A decent player only gives up say a quarter percent extra to the house. The mistakes are small, maybe they misplay rare hands like a pair of 3s against a 7 or soft 18. Some of them even less because they'll push their bets up a little if they see small cards come out even if they aren't counting. If they bet 100 a hand the house only makes 50 bucks an hour on these players in a game with good rules. And that's before comps, rooms, free bets, etc. You can do the math, the margins barely cover the cost to operate the table. Much better to just have H17 side bet games with awful 10% HA side bets. The plops lose more on this per hour than the 100 buck player and don't expect any comps (after all they're only betting 20 dollars a hand total!) and in fact many will even pay for the crappy rooms and food they have at caesars properties. Plus the casino saves on monitoring costs against counters.

Of course there is one side effect of this. The plops basically never win whereas the smart gambler has a fighting chance. As a result this type of player is quite a bit more likely to be a repeat customer.

Even the "hunch" whale will deviate from BS once and a while. Tarzan is correct. The casinos with better rules garner the high action players. We are talking BS players who bet purple and above off the top. They don't want too lose to quickly; nobody wants to feel like a sucker. Max Rubin discussed this 2 weeks ago on "Gambling with an Edge." You can have a huge edge over people, but if nobody is playing, you're not making any money. Furthermore they just end up losing faster, and don't want to come back. At least with decent rules they have a fighting chance, and your typical whale knows this.

**MJGolf** · 10-19-2015, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Tarzan

As far as Oklahoma goes, I've never played there! I driven through stopping only for gas on my way to someplace that does want to charge me $50 an hour to play in addition to their house advantage.

Someone piping up to say "Oh no if you kiss butt and the rain gods are feeling favorable toward you that day you might not have to pay the 50 cent ante in Oklahoma"--- Nope, sorry, forget it! Anyone paying a 50 cent ante to play is a fool. Anyone having to jump through hoops to avoid paying this extra gouge must have a lot more tolerance for bullshit than I also.

Well I'm not trying to support my state just because BUT there are reasons to visit here for vacation:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/

http://welcometobricktown.com/

We have the most diverse "eco clines" supposedly than any other state.

But back to BJ and since this is a public forum, I won't scout for you but it's not that hard to avoid antes. You just have to be aware of who, when........LOL

See: http://www.osagecasinos.com/promotions/weekly and "Push the ante".

What IS the issue here, is the big name casinos......such as Hard Rock in Tulsa/Catoosa, Riverwind in Norman, and WinStar on I-35 NEVER waive ante........so why play there? They are big because they draw people who don't understand the rules in my opinion. Ploppies if you will. AND they are the ones with the extra amenities.........nicer restaurants, golf courses, hotels, etc. But BJ rules are NO good in the name places; you have to scout. Just my 2 cents worth defending my state........LOL

**CHAM** · 10-19-2015, 07:34 PM

I am with MJgolf, I also live here and have no trouble finding a no ante game to go play. I have some notes on dealers that have good cuts so its just not a problem. You just have to be in the (Know) or network with other AP's to play in Oklahoma. But for the most part playing Blackjack in this state is a losing effort I agree. I have also not heard one think good from anyone on AC.

I have talked to some casino's that that MJgolf talked about and They don't have to waive there antes because ploppies are happy to pay it and not travel to Las Vegas or God forbid AC. Either way it's sad, I am just glad that WE know better.

**Three** · 10-19-2015, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by CHAM

I have also not heard one think good from anyone on AC.

The only thing good about AC is the casino cluster and number of tables available to play. The rules and pen certainly aren't going to bring anyone in, especially because if you are coming in from out of state you are driving away from some great games when you head to AC.

**Goatlife** · 10-19-2015, 09:17 PM

AC was great.. Borgata on fri and sat tons of purple and orange action around

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 10-20-2015, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by WABJ11

I wouldn't go to Twin Rivers. Don't they actively add, and use OSN?

Yes indeed that is so, but, (unsurprisingly), they
concentrate their efforts on their $50 / $100 tables.

**Halbruno** · 10-21-2015, 09:58 PM

Getting back on subject....

I went to Mohegan recently mid-week. It seems that the casino is slowly contracting. As you all likely know, they closed the tables in the wind casino mid-week about a year ago. They are only open Friday through Sunday. To compensate, they opened the little pit next to the five dollar tables. These tables also doubled as the Diva tables on Friday nights. Now within the last couple of months, they have closed that pit also during the week. Plus, a couple of active pits have lost a table or two. They are gone. The tables that are still there are not fully used as they were just a few months ago. So, there are fewer dealers/active games. When I arrived around noon, all of the tables were full. It took me a couple of hours to find acceptable table conditions. I assume players took a break around that time for lunch etc. I don't understand how Mohegan and Foxwoods can discuss opening another casino in Connecticut while their core business is shrinking! Casinos are full of contradictions!

Btw, shouldn't this thread be moved to "eastern" under the paid threads? Does anyone read that anymore? There used to be some good discussions about area casinos.