high limit rooms

**luckyned** · 10-09-2015, 10:16 AM

These generally offer the best rules and are usually less crowded. It seems that on this forum, the vets are against them. Is that because of the heat/surveillance issues? What are the factors to consider, and why do people on this forum seem to want to stay out of HL rooms?

**Freightman** · 10-09-2015, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by luckyned

These generally offer the best rules and are usually less crowded. It seems that on this forum, the vets are against them. Is that because of the heat/surveillance issues? What are the factors to consider, and why do people on this forum seem to want to stay out of HL rooms?

As you've stated - heat surveillance issues. Not applicable to tons of local joints all over the place where min 25 is considered hi limit - and us the highest min available.

**Avincow** · 10-09-2015, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Freightman

As you've stated - heat surveillance issues. Not applicable to tons of local joints all over the place where min 25 is considered hi limit - and us the highest min available.

Do you believe playing a $25 min game in the high limit area has the same heat as the $10 games on the main floor? But $100 games are sweated when the main floor consists of $25 games?

**Tarzan** · 10-09-2015, 11:09 AM

You'll never find me saying that! The higher the stakes you are able to play, the better the rules with the only drawback for me being the inability to wong into these HL room NMSE games. Beyond that from an accounting aspect, the larger the volume of money you are moving over the table (operating within reasonable ROR and with sufficient bankroll)... It didn't used to be like this years ago but anymore you have to really shop around for a decent game and more often than not play at least a $25 min. game in a lot of places to avoid 8D, H17, ASM's, 6:5, etc. They will offer some combination of these crappy rules on low stakes tables that render the game not worth bothering with or even unplayable if you add in the human factors, such as choking up on the pen and crowded conditions.

**JPhoenixX** · 10-09-2015, 11:33 AM

One of the places I play has such horrible pen on the floor I have to play the hl room where it is slightly better. Even there the conditions aren't great, but I have to move around a bit.

**greg16394** · 10-09-2015, 11:34 AM

Is there any reason to avoid ASM ?

**Freightman** · 10-09-2015, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Avincow

Do you believe playing a $25 min game in the high limit area has the same heat as the $10 games on the main floor? But $100 games are sweated when the main floor consists of $25 games?

Min 100 games are usually sweated pretty good - do you have a players card- oh, well then, where are u from and where do you play, and just for interests sake, do you have a foreskin. Do you always spread like that and how much money do you have on you. I think you get the point.

The places I play, there is additional heat on 25 vs 10, simply by nature of the beast, but it's nothing that I would view as belligerent.

**Freightman** · 10-09-2015, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Tarzan

You'll never find me saying that! The higher the stakes you are able to play, the better the rules with the only drawback for me being the inability to wong into these HL room NMSE games. Beyond that from an accounting aspect, the larger the volume of money you are moving over the table (operating within reasonable ROR and with sufficient bankroll)... It didn't used to be like this years ago but anymore you have to really shop around for a decent game and more often than not play at least a $25 min. game in a lot of places to avoid 8D, H17, ASM's, 6:5, etc. They will offer some combination of these crappy rules on low stakes tables that render the game not worth bothering with or even unplayable if you add in the human factors, such as choking up on the pen and crowded conditions.

Believe it or not, we have a store, which eventually changed, where the shittiest conditions were in hi limit. Main floor was 4 deck at one time, 6 deck (then 8d and finally csm) with good pen and surrender. Hi limit had shitty pen on 6d, then shitty pen on 8d, and no surrender - seriously. Hi limit then went to surrender, Better pen down to 6 deck, followed by my presence on site. I lasted 5 weeks.

**Tarzan** · 10-09-2015, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by greg16394

Is there any reason to avoid ASM ?

STing opportunities.

**Bubbles** · 10-09-2015, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by greg16394

Is there any reason to avoid ASM ?

If you're only counting, there isn't really a reason to avoid ASM because all they do is shuffle at the end of the shoe. If you're shuffle tracking, ASM make it difficult/impossible to track the cards.

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 10-09-2015, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Freightman

" ... additional heat on 25 vs 10"

Translation requested.

**Three** · 10-09-2015, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash

Translation requested.

Perhaps table mins.

**BoSox** · 10-14-2015, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by luckyned

These generally offer the best rules and are usually less crowded. It seems that on this forum, the vets are against them. Is that because of the heat/surveillance issues? What are the factors to consider, and why do people on this forum seem to want to stay out of HL rooms?

Speaking only for myself, I am on the side of trying to avoid them if you can. Why, lets start with what you wrote.

#1 heat/surveillance issues:

Do you play rated? If you do, are you using your real name? How important is the casino to you, do you frequent it often, as in a local place? If you play unrated be ready to answer questions of why you are not, this should be a short and quick answer. Does the casino take the ACTION well? If it does, and is close to home maybe using a little more prudence is well worth it. Anyway it stands to reason that the big room is much more scrutinized.

#2 What are these games SCORE'S?
What is the penn and the house rules and number of decks of the low end tables? What is the pen and any house rule changes that the big room offers?

#3 What is your current spread?

Will you be using identical spreads in both games or not? If you think you can somewhat lower spreads because of being offset by a rule change such as S17 V H17 you did not examine the game close enough. Did you notice the big game quite possibly has NMSE as a rule. You are probably thinking no wonging in to games, no big deal at all, you can still wongout, I'm telling you there is much more to the NMSE rule than being able to hop among a few tables.By the way when you check out a room to play I hope you check out not only cuts,and number of players but how many tables are open at your level.Incidentally jumping around tables in big rooms does get noticed more quickly.

#4 NMSE intangibles:

I suggest you check out true count frequencies of the games you will be playing. Example 4.5/6 S17 das the tc freq % less than o is 45.01% at tc of o is 27.68%. I don't know about anyone else but I like to try and keep my negative true count hands played down as much as I can by sitting out as many hands as possible that have negative EV, doing this also increases your SCORE.You cannot do this playing NMSE tables so do not sacrifice lowering your spread because of a small positive rule change.