Help programing CV side bet please

[Chris H]

Norm, et al,

I have been unable to get CV to run a side bet common to a casino I frequent. It is called a "Buster" bet and pays the player 2-1 for a dealer bust of 3 or 4 cards. Even if the player has already busted his hand out. This means the side bet cannot be paid out or collected until after all player hands are finished (even if all of them bust) and the dealer flips his down card. If he has a pat hand, (didn't bust), only then does the dealer take the side bet(s). If not, the dealer must draw until he gets a hand or busts to pay or collect the bet. Now add to that the variations of pay out as follows: 5 card bust pays 4-1, 6 card bust pays 12-1, 7 card bust pays 50-1, and 8 card bust pays 100-1.

I could go through the parameters I thought should give these side bet results but they are pretty self explanatory and easy to understand. Great job there Norm! I think I had the settings needed but no good. The game will not simulate this side bet for me. Could someone else verify whether this side bet could be enabled and function as described before I go any further? Tried everything I could see in the settings but maybe I missed something? I sure would like to track the results of playing this bet using CV.

Thanks,
Chris H

[Norm]

I don't think this can be handled.

[Chris H]

So no way to program a side bet that the dealer will bust? Bummer! I just played there again today and hit the 7 card bust (dealer busted with 7 cards) and a $5 side bet won $250. It's a DD pitchout game and I would sure like to track the results of that particular side bet. It pays better than a 3-2 blackjack (which is why they limit the bet to a $50 max) but if the dealer is busting regularly the return is significant. Hitting a 6 or 7 card bust can be a windfall.

Any chance you could tweak the program a little to make this side bet possible for CV? Thanks.

[Dog Hand]

Norm, et al,

I have been unable to get CV to run a side bet common to a casino I frequent. It is called a "Buster" bet and pays the player 2-1 for a dealer bust of 3 or 4 cards. Even if the player has already busted his hand out. This means the side bet cannot be paid out or collected until after all player hands are finished (even if all of them bust) and the dealer flips his down card. If he has a pat hand, (didn't bust), only then does the dealer take the side bet(s). If not, the dealer must draw until he gets a hand or busts to pay or collect the bet. Now add to that the variations of pay out as follows: 5 card bust pays 4-1, 6 card bust pays 12-1, 7 card bust pays 50-1, and 8 card bust pays 100-1.<snip>Chris H

Chris H,

Below are the results for a DD, H17 game with 75% pen. The trick to getting these is to use six sidebets that are all merged into one. You flat-bet 1 unit. Be sure to check that DD hands count, but only the 1st hand on a split counts.

1. SB1 pays 2:1 if the dealer's hand contains 3 cards and totals >21,
2. SB2 pays 2:1 if the dealer's hand contains 4 cards and totals >21,
3. SB3 pays 4:1 if the dealer's hand contains 5 cards and totals >21,
4. SB4 pays 12:1 if the dealer's hand contains 6 cards and totals >21,
5. SB5 pays 50:1 if the dealer's hand contains 7 cards and totals >21,
6. SB6 pays 100:1 if the dealer's hand contains >7 cards and totals >21.

The trick to getting the dealer always to finish her hand is to play a "Never Bust" strategy (I defined a special one that uses HiLo tags, so I can see the SB results as a function of HiLo TC), and to flat-bet 3 hands per round: the chances of all 3 of your hands getting a BJ are remote enough not to alter the results significantly, and in any other case the dealer will have to complete her hand. Granted, this will mean that your EV shown on the Summary Table will be screwy, because you're using a Never Bust strategy: if you really care about your BJ EV as well, simply run a 2-player sim, with "you" in seat 1, and seat 2 occupied by the 3-handed Never Bust player.

The results shown below correspond to betting $5 per round per spot (so $15 total) on the SB. As you can see, this SB is not susceptible to HiLo: at no TC is the SB +EV. Also, the overall SB EV, -6.57%, agrees well with the value given by the Wizard of Odds of about -6.5% for DD, H17.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Side Bet 1
Side Bet 1
Side Bet 1
Side Bet 1


Units Bet
# Won
EV
WR

TOT
1,107,566,460
317,157,113
-6.57%
($90.93)

>39





39





38





37





36





35
9

-100.00%
$0.00

34
15
3
-40.00%
$0.00

33
24
6
-25.00%
$0.00

32
45
12
-20.00%
$0.00

31
129
27
-32.56%
$0.00

30
153
30
-29.41%
$0.00

29
495
81
-47.27%
$0.00

28
522
126
-16.09%
$0.00

27
1,371
264
-40.92%
$0.00

26
2,901
636
-29.06%
$0.00

25
7,209
1,557
-31.54%
$0.00

24
10,986
2,460
-28.56%
$0.00

23
13,245
2,982
-27.48%
$0.00

22
34,215
7,956
-26.33%
($0.01)

21
39,042
9,159
-25.10%
($0.01)

20
84,660
20,400
-22.63%
($0.02)

19
113,520
27,606
-22.67%
($0.03)

18
186,696
47,103
-19.76%
($0.05)

17
279,315
71,298
-18.21%
($0.06)

16
583,473
149,928
-18.16%
($0.13)

15
627,774
163,884
-16.55%
($0.13)

14
1,189,008
314,616
-15.47%
($0.23)

13
1,109,394
297,204
-14.48%
($0.20)

12
2,966,775
802,323
-13.45%
($0.50)

11
3,357,930
922,809
-12.15%
($0.51)

10
4,927,248
1,363,845
-11.23%
($0.69)

9
6,522,504
1,821,072
-10.60%
($0.86)

8
10,338,846
2,895,723
-10.11%
($1.31)

7
13,561,728
3,837,306
-9.24%
($1.57)

6
18,659,291
5,284,443
-8.79%
($2.05)

5
28,089,466
8,000,322
-8.18%
($2.87)

4
37,185,088
10,625,928
-7.91%
($3.67)

3
52,158,653
14,949,627
-7.27%
($4.74)

2
72,858,291
20,900,052
-7.05%
($6.42)

1
118,817,421
34,129,172
-6.68%
($9.92)


325,252,864
93,397,648
-6.41%
($26.07)

-1
134,020,685
38,523,188
-5.99%
($10.03)

-2
76,735,731
22,079,286
-5.69%
($5.45)

-3
56,699,034
16,301,088
-5.53%
($3.92)

-4
37,291,389
10,708,338
-5.32%
($2.48)

-5
32,104,077
9,209,352
-5.32%
($2.13)

-6
20,982,040
5,997,732
-5.16%
($1.35)

-7
14,526,896
4,139,469
-5.16%
($0.94)

-8
11,456,931
3,252,459
-5.28%
($0.76)

-9
7,153,416
2,020,248
-5.28%
($0.47)

-10
5,512,347
1,547,910
-5.53%
($0.38)

-11
3,785,328
1,056,060
-5.80%
($0.27)

-12
3,299,178
916,056
-5.85%
($0.24)

-13
1,408,956
386,781
-6.30%
($0.11)

-14
1,240,950
339,309
-6.52%
($0.10)

-15
787,107
212,838
-6.92%
($0.07)

-16
660,933
178,482
-6.44%
($0.05)

-17
346,896
92,154
-6.80%
($0.03)

-18
203,334
53,679
-6.70%
($0.02)

-19
143,139
37,215
-9.30%
($0.02)

-20
97,311
25,248
-7.69%
($0.01)

-21
50,625
12,888
-9.39%
($0.01)

-22
37,554
9,549
-7.28%
$0.00

-23
15,681
3,795
-9.80%
$0.00

-24
11,610
2,886
-10.39%
$0.00

-25
8,388
2,031
-8.76%
$0.00

-26
3,507
819
-13.69%
$0.00

-27
1,455
312
-23.71%
$0.00

-28
705
168
-19.15%
$0.00

-29
534
99
-28.65%
$0.00

-30
198
27
-50.00%
$0.00

-31
144
27
-35.42%
$0.00

-32
33
3
-72.73%
$0.00

-33
27
6
-33.33%
$0.00

-34
15
3
-40.00%
$0.00

-35





-36





-37





-38





-39





<-39

[Chris H]

Wow thanks Dog Hand! You put a lot of effort into that reply! Obviously it's another sucker bet as are all side bets in the long run. I had the multiple side bets set up exactly as you did and merging them but the dealer takes the bet even when she busts and I don't after playing her hand out. That's with delayed payout selected.

For sake of simplicity forget the merging of side bets with different card total/payouts. I can't even get a single side bet of dealer 3card total >21 to payout. Even when she busts she takes the bet. Just to get the never bust workaround you suggest I have to get her to play through her hand and pay when busted. So far not able to get CV to cooperate.

I have tried everything I can think of in the payoffs box settings, nothing works for me. Automatic win checked/not checked = no difference. Variable 0.0 (default) or any value = no difference. Fixed 0.0 or any value (2:1 would be nice, and yes I tried 2.1 since the program doesn't like colons in that value) = no difference.

Side bet box settings:
ID = DB (for dealer bust)
$ limit = $50
Multiple limit = 0 (default although I have tried other vales to see if it made any difference) nada...

Conditions box;
Split hands count (checked)
DD hands count (checked)

Of course when I first tried with all the variations in card totals and payouts I had side bets merged checked. Now I'm just trying to get to first base with one side bet the dealer will bust and get it to work before worrying about the rest. Egad.

And yes the side bet tab is activated and the unusual games box is checked. The side bet shows up on the felt. If I don't have delayed payout checked she just takes the bet as soon as cards are dealt since she doesn't have 3 cards yet therefore no total >21 I guess. With delay checked she leaves the bet until her hand is played but even when she busts she takes the bet. I must be doing something wrong but I'm "Dogged" if I can figure out what!

Thanks again for taking time to reply!

Chris

[Dog Hand]

Chris H,

I now see why Norm said this could not be done when I thought it could: I thought you wanted to simulate the side bet in CVData (which is what I did), but instead you wanted to play it in CVBJ.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. Norm, naturally, is correct: this cannot be done in CVBJ.

Dog Hand

P.S. Don't automatically dismiss all side bets: some can be very profitable to the discerning AP. CVData can help you separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Chris H]

I must unfortunately concur. CVBJ cannot simulate this side bet unfortunately. It's an awful lot to ask but if Norm tweaks the programing, given it's possible to do so, I would love to see that updated. And I agree that, at least in the case of this side bet, it can be very profitable when the dealer is consistently busting. It can also save your bacon if you busted your hand out by playing a strategy calling for you to hit, but the dealer then goes on to bust as well, paying you something back. CVBJ is a super training tool nonetheless and it's been the best $100 I have invested in bettering my efforts to beat the casino at their own game.

Many thanks,
Chris H.