AP protocols

[Freightman]

I was playing a nice heads up game yesterday with a counter friendly dealer. Some dickwad came up behind me, standing there like a vulture fir a couple of shoes. I asked him if he was playing, and if not, would he kindly buzz off. Petzel head just stood there with a blank look on his face.

It had to be clear to this putz that I'm counting - so - what does this schlemiel do? The schmendrick hops in at a positive count and pounds 2 hands at 50. Least thimble dick could have done was to put down a proper spread. I made a subtle comment to him, as is my want to do, but the schmuck didn't get the message, or rather, didn't want to, instead, spreading to 3x125 (5 times min) I had significantly more on the table. Shithead was eating up great cards with a low spread.

Anyways, peckerhead had totally pissed me off - clearly having no clue. Notwithstanding his total lack of index play, his manner mirrored that of swine dining in the pigpen. Shoe ending, I coloured up, subtly mentioning that i didn't want to play with this asshole. Funny thing was - he got up as well.

Question, even with shithead totally ignoring AP protocol, should I have left in a positive shoe - and for that matter, could I have been more assertive in my subtle comments?

Tongue in cheek post.

[ZeeBabar]

I was playing a nice heads up game yesterday with a counter friendly dealer. Some dickwad came up behind me, standing there like a vulture fir a couple of shoes. I asked him if he was playing, and if not, would he kindly buzz off. Petzel head just stood there with a blank look on his face.

It had to be clear to this putz that I'm counting - so - what does this schlemiel do? The schmendrick hops in at a positive count and pounds 2 hands at 50. Least thimble dick could have done was to put down a proper spread. I made a subtle comment to him, as is my want to do, but the schmuck didn't get the message, or rather, didn't want to, instead, spreading to 3x125 (5 times min) I had significantly more on the table. Shithead was eating up great cards with a low spread.

Anyways, peckerhead had totally pissed me off - clearly having no clue. Notwithstanding his total lack of index play, his manner mirrored that of swine dining in the pigpen. Shoe ending, I coloured up, subtly mentioning that i didn't want to play with this asshole. Funny thing was - he got up as well.

Question, even with shithead totally ignoring AP protocol, should I have left in a positive shoe - and for that matter, could I have been more assertive in my subtle comments?

Tongue in cheek post.

I don't know where it was but I do know some big bettors, if they are playing heads up, ask the pit and succeed in getting NMSE. I don't wong in but I have seen such bettors, when they see gawkers behind, ask the dealer and/pit to do so.

Since the shoe fits as already positive, maybe you could have tried it.

on another note, how different is it when one AP does not appreciate someone jumping into his positive shoe while finding it perfectly okay to go to a good game at a local joint used by local AP's at tolerant levels and burn down that game, just asking.

[Freightman]

I don't know where it was but I do know some big bettors, if they are playing heads up, ask the pit and succeed in getting NMSE. I don't wong in but I have seen such bettors, when they see gawkers behind, ask the dealer and/pit to do so.

Since the shoe fits as already positive, maybe you could have tried it.

on another note, how different is it when one AP does not appreciate someone jumping into his positive shoe while finding it perfectly okay to go to a good game at a local joint used by local AP's at tolerant levels and burn down that game, just asking.

1. I did ask the pit - they said nothing they could do.
2. Never said I was burning the joint down. I'm a miller, not a slasher - or is that - lover not a fighter.
3. As for wonging in on ploppies - that simply assists them in losing at a slightly quicker rate.

[moses]

Sorry about the tough day freighter. But I gotta say this may be the most hiliarious "worded" thread I've ever read. Sounds to me like some goon was sent from upstairs to mess with you. That demeanor of the "deer in the headlights" look of a player has been a sign for me in that past...And typically, when I walked away (thinking what you were saying) they followed.

I had once instance where a guy came up to the table stood right next to me, so close his cigarette smoke is coming up in my face and started watching me play. I just folded my arms and stopped playing. The dealers asks if I'm going to bet. I said "no, not unless the you get rid of Goober." Dealer replies to Goober, "this ain't a spectator sport pal, beat it."

[Freightman]

Sorry about the tough day freighter. But I gotta say this may be the most hiliarious "worded" thread I've ever read. Sounds to me like some goon was sent from upstairs to mess with you. That demeanor of the "deer in the headlights" look of a player has been a sign for me in that past...And typically, when I walked away (thinking what you were saying) they followed.

I had once instance where a guy came up to the table stood right next to me, so close his cigarette smoke is coming up in my face and started watching me play. I just folded my arms and stopped playing. The dealers asks if I'm going to bet. I said "no, not unless the you get rid of Goober." Dealer replies to Goober, "this ain't a spectator sport pal, beat it."

Dumbass was definitely on his own. He had to be the dumbest counter I've ever seen.ill respond to ZenKings silly response. There will be more info there.

Anyways, my out if town biz trip is over - I'm going to relax with a glass of wine - looks like $180/hr over 22 hours after all expenses, including the trip home. Now, if I hadn't got trounced last night, woulda coulda shoulda been better.

[ZenKinG]

I was playing a nice heads up game yesterday with a counter friendly dealer. Some dickwad came up behind me, standing there like a vulture fir a couple of shoes. I asked him if he was playing, and if not, would he kindly buzz off. Petzel head just stood there with a blank look on his face.

It had to be clear to this putz that I'm counting - so - what does this schlemiel do? The schmendrick hops in at a positive count and pounds 2 hands at 50. Least thimble dick could have done was to put down a proper spread. I made a subtle comment to him, as is my want to do, but the schmuck didn't get the message, or rather, didn't want to, instead, spreading to 3x125 (5 times min) I had significantly more on the table. Shithead was eating up great cards with a low spread.

Anyways, peckerhead had totally pissed me off - clearly having no clue. Notwithstanding his total lack of index play, his manner mirrored that of swine dining in the pigpen. Shoe ending, I coloured up, subtly mentioning that i didn't want to play with this asshole. Funny thing was - he got up as well.

Question, even with shithead totally ignoring AP protocol, should I have left in a positive shoe - and for that matter, could I have been more assertive in my subtle comments?

Tongue in cheek post.

How do you know he wasn't an AP as well and just wonging your game? Or maybe you did, thats why you brought up him not knowing any index plays? Well that's besides the fact, to answer your question, NO, you should have not left a positive count regardless whats going on. An advantage is still an advantage, he could have easily took all the garbage small cards and you would've got all the big ones. At the end of the day, just because it's a big true count, no one knows if the cards are even behind the cut card or in your case if someone joins whether or not he will take all the small cards and you get the big ones or vice versa. An advantage is an advantage, as long as it's not a crowded table, pound away with the plastic in front of you. As for him having a small spread, i disagree, if hes wonging hard, a 1-2 and 1-3 spread is sufficient to make a nice hourly especially if it's 2x50-3x125. Off the top of my head, with average rules and pen, that should be good for about 60 bucks an hour give or take

[Freightman]

How do you know he wasn't an AP as well and just wonging your game? Or maybe you did, thats why you brought up him not knowing any index plays? Well that's besides the fact, to answer your question, NO, you should have not left a positive count regardless whats going on. An advantage is still an advantage, he could have easily took all the garbage small cards and you would've got all the big ones. At the end of the day, just because it's a big true count, no one knows if the cards are even behind the cut card or in your case if someone joins whether or not he will take all the small cards and you get the big ones or vice versa. An advantage is an advantage, as long as it's not a crowded table, pound away with the plastic in front of you. As for him having a small spread, i disagree, if hes wonging hard, a 1-2 and 1-3 spread is sufficient to make a nice hourly especially if it's 2x50-3x125. Off the top of my head, with average rules and pen, that should be good for about 60 bucks an hour give or take

I thought I made it reasonably clear that dung heap was a counter, and quite likely the dumbest dickwad I've ever seen. Peanut Brain, when he Wongs in, pulls out his wad (no, not that one) and pulls 2 or 300 from what seemed to be a 5k folded stash. Ploppies don't carry that kind of cash. With a monster count, he spreads from 2x50 to 3x25, with lots of cash. This guy is a qualified candidate for a frontal lobotomy. It was a process that he repeated a couple of times, no doubt aided by his fear of making the right play, preferring the ridiculous approach likely praying for the never ending miracle he do desperately craved.

There are some who may construe that he did not make my favoured top 64 list of preferred table mates. You may give yourself a star, if that is in fact the case.

[ZenKinG]

I thought I made it reasonably clear that dung heap was a counter, and quite likely the dumbest dickwad I've ever seen. Peanut Brain, when he Wongs in, pulls out his wad (no, not that one) and pulls 2 or 300 from what seemed to be a 5k folded stash. Ploppies don't carry that kind of cash. With a monster count, he spreads from 2x50 to 3x25, with lots of cash. This guy is a qualified candidate for a frontal lobotomy. It was a process that he repeated a couple of times, no doubt aided by his fear of making the right play, preferring the ridiculous approach likely praying for the never ending miracle he do desperately craved.

There are some who may construe that he did not make my favoured top 64 list of preferred table mates. You may give yourself a star, if that is in fact the case.

I know where you're coming from, and I know what it feels like when some random idiot comes into your game at a high count and wins every hand while you lose every hand, especially when you were winning prior to that. With that being said, this doesn't really happen to me anymore though. What I do is I POLITELY ask the guy who wants to enter if he could please wait until the end of the shoe. You'll be surprised that when you treat someone with respect, 9 out of 10 times, they will honor your request. If you treat someone like garbage, they will bark right back at you and in this case, they will just enter the game in spite because they know it will anger you more. Isaac Newton said it best, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Try it out, Freight, you will be surprised how well it works. Let's also not forget, you're surrounded by 'gamblers', they all have superstitions, and they will think that your request for them to not enter is because you are winning and that you dont want them to mess up the 'flow of the cards'. This superstition would be an added reason for them to be generous to you because they know the pain of someone entering and messing up their winning streak due to 'flow of the cards' being completely changed. Of course there is always the occasional jerk off, who will jump in regardless, maybe he's a counter with no etiquette like you mentioned, or maybe hes just a clueless drunk who didnt even notice what you said. But from my experience, a simple polite gesture to the guy entering, will almost every time prevent the guy from coming into your heads up game.

With all this being said, I know you're an experienced player and you don't need me lecturing you on this, but you should know that the math is what it is. Someone entering your game will have NO effect on your long term results. Just because it's a big count, doesn't mean the 'big' cards are in front of the cut card, they could easily be behind the cut card and you wont even see those + rounds. Also, that player who jumps into your game could've easily saved you from losing 10 max bets in a row, as well as take all the small cards, while you continue to get blackjacks and heavy double down max bet wins. Dont get caught up with all of this, yes it will hurt your SHORT term results, but if you're worried about short term, you probably have a small bankroll and there's bigger problems that need to be addressed first and foremost. I know you've been playing for a while, and you have a big roll, so I know that's not your problem, so forget about it and keep your mind on what matters and what matters is the old cliche "THE LONG RUN". Good luck Freight.

[Freightman]

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I know where you're coming from, and I know what it feels like when some random idiot comes into your game at a high count and wins every hand while you lose every hand, especially when you were winning prior to that. With that being said, this doesn't really happen to me anymore though. What I do is I POLITELY ask the guy who wants to enter if he could please wait until the end of the shoe. You'll be surprised that when you treat someone with respect, 9 out of 10 times, they will honor your request. If you treat someone like garbage, they will bark right back at you and in this case, they will just enter the game in spite because they know it will anger you more. Isaac Newton said it best, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Try it out, Freight, you will be surprised how well it works. Let's also not forget, you're surrounded by 'gamblers', they all have superstitions, and they will think that your request for them to not enter is because you are winning and that you dont want them to mess up the 'flow of the cards'. This superstition would be an added reason for them to be generous to you because they know the pain of someone entering and messing up their winning streak due to 'flow of the cards' being completely changed. Of course there is always the occasional jerk off, who will jump in regardless, maybe he's a counter with no etiquette like you mentioned, or maybe hes just a clueless drunk who didnt even notice what you said. But from my experience, a simple polite gesture to the guy entering, will almost every time prevent the guy from coming into your heads up game.

With all this being said, I know you're an experienced player and you don't need me lecturing you on this, but you should know that the math is what it is. Someone entering your game will have NO effect on your long term results. Just because it's a big count, doesn't mean the 'big' cards are in front of the cut card, they could easily be behind the cut card and you wont even see those + rounds. Also, that player who jumps into your game could've easily saved you from losing 10 max bets in a row, as well as take all the small cards, while you continue to get blackjacks and heavy double down max bet wins. Dont get caught up with all of this, yes it will hurt your SHORT term results, but if you're worried about short term, you probably have a small bankroll and there's bigger problems that need to be addressed first and foremost. I know you've been playing for a while, and you have a big roll, so I know that's not your problem, so forget about it and keep your mind on what matters and what matters is the old cliche "THE LONG RUN". Good luck Freight.

Your still off the mark. I made money on the shoe. I was pissed, because the dolt, in need of a lobotomy, drilled saliva out of the side of his mouth for 2 full shoes, didn't get the less than subtle comments to buzz off, coughed and farted in the same breath, and wonged the table. (Did I mention the tobacco odor?) okay - he was just plain stupid.

He lacked the brain cells necessary to properly take advantage of the situation. I hope I don't run into this facsimile of the walking dead in future.

In similar situations, I also ask politely if they wouldn't mind holding off for a few hands. When those individuals comply, win or lose, I always thank them for their consideration. Ploppies do this stuff all the time, but they don't know any better. BTW, don't worry about my bankroll. ROR is about .01%

Last, but not least, an interesting new thread could well be about ploppies bonehead plays that help you. I have a lot of those stories.

[ZeeBabar]

Zen King, you did not get it right, he never said the intruder was using a small spread, just that he was a smaller, much smaller, bettor. You are right about not leaving a positive count but sometimes, whether because of fatigue or losses, we start getting irritated by other players. To me, it's a sign that I am off and it's time to cut the session short and go home.

[RS]

Sounds like your friend, Schlemiel [what an odd name?] isn't even a card-counter or AP.

[Dieter]

Petzel head just stood there with a blank look on his face.

So he was acting like there weren't other players at the table?

[luckyned]

Not to highjack, but was thinking about this issue and reading https://www.blackjackincolor.com/othereffects1.htm, which suggests some capture of value by the wonger, but also shows that win rate goes down dramatically at TC +5. Am I stupid that I thought increasing TC meant increasing advantage? Can Norm answer this? I can see why win rate would go down at astronomical +TC because of all the pushes, but wouldn't have thought it would be so early. Am I reading this wrong?