More players, better game?

[NotEnoughHeat]

I have about 15-20 sims for the same game in CVCX, differing only in the number of players (multiple sims per number of players). The sims come in three sizes (hands played): 2e9, 8e9 and 2e10.

The count is Hi-Lo with about 30 indices. The wonging style is begin play at >=0, stop play at <=-2, stop observation at <=-5.

The trend my sims seem to suggest is that more players the better c-SCORE ceteris paribus.

I personally take all my sims with a grain of salt due to random error you get with statistics approximating parameters as well as potential systematic error with post sim manipulations. My intuition is that the more other players at the table (besides just one other) would make your game worse beyond just slowing down the game. My thinking is that you receive less rounds at high counts (as well a low counts) the more players there are and since you are counting the high counts do a lot more than the low counts so the net effect is to your detriment.

I am having a tough time believing the opposite to be the case. It's a bit of a tough pill to swallow along with the baseline skepticism I already have with sim results. So I am wondering if anyone can explain why it is or isn't the case (that the more players at the table, the better c-SCORE you have). If what my sims seem to suggest is true, being able to conceptually understand why it's the case would mean a lot to me.

Thanks in advance to any responders.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

The trend my sims seem to suggest is that more players the better c-SCORE ceteris paribus.

Ceteris Paribus: Latin phrase that translates approximately to "holding other things constant" and is usually rendered in English as "all other things being equal". In economics and finance, the term is used as a shorthand for indicating the effect of one economic variable on another, holding constant all other variables that may affect the second variable.

[Three]

The sims are right but in actual play everything is not equal. You should get more than twice as many hands in playing heads up than at a crowded table. The other players eat cards in bad counts and good. They help get through the bad and neutral counts with fewer hands played. You can determine a shoe is not worth playing while risking a lot less money but when you get that big advantage the other players eat the good cards limiting the opportunity. The sim shows you the effect per round. It is up to you to use your experience to translate that into hourly.

[Norm]

The sims are correct. CVCX assumes that you sit at third base. The more players to your right, the more info you have, and therefore, the higher the SCORE. Also, the more players, the deeper the true penetration for the third base player for playing purposes. Of course, if you want win rate to be accurate, you will have to reduce hands/hour.

[DSchles]

Read BJA3, p. 205, paragraphs one and two.

It is unfortunate, as is the case with your post, that when people quote SCOREs, c-SCOREs, and hourly win rates, they don't consider that, unless you make a conscious effort to change the input, CVCX reports results per 100 ROUNDS per hour. Period. Alone? 100 rounds per hour. Full table? 100 rounds per hour! Playing two hands? 100 ROUNDS of two hands per hour! So, if you don't take a moment to change that setting, it's simply a case of GIGO. (Note that, for playing two hands, you not only have to reduce the round per hour, you have to reduce the size of the bet of each hand, as well.)

Don

[ZenMaster_Flash]

GIGO: "Garbage In. Garbage Out."

[Norm]

The SCORE result in CVCX assumes 100 hands/hour, $10,000 bankroll and 13.53% RoR. The Win/Hour takes into account your settings for hands/hour, bankroll, and RoR. My philosophy has always been that you must set the hands/hour as the software doesn't know how fast the other players and dealer are, or how much time you spend looking for a table, if you wish to include that time.

[NotEnoughHeat]

The sims are correct. CVCX assumes that you sit at third base. The more players to your right, the more info you have, and therefore, the higher the SCORE. Also, the more players, the deeper the true penetration for the third base player for playing purposes. Of course, if you want win rate to be accurate, you will have to reduce hands/hour.

This makes sense. Thanks

Of course I realize that the more players there are the fewer rounds/hour you receive thus a lower hourly. However, I was interested purely in the effect on c-SCORE.

[Ali D]

I also cannot explain it my my casino experience tells me that sitting in 3rd base ant playing with maximum 2 other players on the table has the best outcome. it is true that I get less hands in high counts but I have lost more hands in high counts when I play alone, having other people at the table somehow brought me good luck,,, but luck is not probably something that you should take too seriously!