does this make sense ?

[Nikky_Flash]

Hi everybody , I have to travel for my regular job ...much of the time when traveling for work, I'm close to a casino and count level 2 with a small spread like 1-8 , , I would like to play more often like, When I'm "home" ;the closest casino is about 25 dollars in gas money to go play ...I've heard people give advise that with a small spread its not worth it . but with my small spread I'm about 8-10 dollars and hour depending on pen. , does that mean if I play more than 3 hours at these "home" base places that it becomes "worth" it ?
Or should I just keep waiting for my job to send me to casino places?
Thanks ,
Nikky

[Sweaty]

How much is your time "worth?"

With the small spread you'll come out very little ahead monetarily in the long run, but you shouldn't have a problem using a player card and gaining comps.

If you enjoy the game and are disciplined enough to not tip yourself into a -EV situation, I say go for it!

[Nikky_Flash]

How much is your time "worth?"

With the small spread you'll come out very little ahead monetarily in the long run, but you shouldn't have a problem using a player card and gaining comps.

If you enjoy the game and are disciplined enough to not tip yourself into a -EV situation, I say go for it!

Thanks , yeah I have extreme fun , and have made a little money ... But to make more, especially at the places I would have to drive and hour or more , I would have to tombstone pretty much / sit for hours etc...
..I never got a players card before, never used casino -coupons , what do I ask for besides a burger and fries ? Thanks

[Bigdaddy]

I think you need to decide what your long-term objectives are. At an EV of $8 - 10 per hour (e.g., minimum wage), you're not going to quit your day job. It sounds to me like you might just enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of playing the game at an advantage and the monetary gain is secondary. If that's the case, then why worry about spending a little bit on travel in order to engage in a hobby that you like?

Or maybe you want to play a lot to continually improve your game so that some day (maybe retirement) you can take it to the next level and make some real money at it. If so, my answer is the same - why worry about a little travel expense if that's what it takes to reach your longer-term development goals?

[Nikky_Flash]

Thanks bigdaddy , my long term goal is to use card counting to pay off my only debt/ a defunct student loan ... Another long term goal that goes hand in hand is building up br / not making any unwise moves ...so I can spread at the next level/ make more money ... Part of that is questioning if I drive to this place if it makes logical-financial sense. . thanks

[Bodarc]

Winston Yamashita wrote an article about this at :

http://web.archive.org/web/201112312...lization.shtml

If I understand correctly, in it he points out that if your expenses (ie travel, tips etc) are more than 1/4 of your expected earnings, then you can never bet optimally and will always be over betting because tips and expenses reduce your EV which results in a lower EV and since optimum bets are based on EV/Variance, your bets must be reduced. It works out that when you reach 1/4 of EV, you can not make optimum bets.

[Sweaty]

If you plan on staying at a small spread I see no harm in using a card at your local joint, it's almost necessary to "make it worth your time" IMO, since you're playing for entertainment rather than $$$.

I'm just extrapolating, but it seems you have a good understanding of the game, EV, and BR management.

When you get a player card you will be automatically mailed coupons based on your play. You can also print coupons/vouchers from the casino kiosk. The casino will rate you by your time and average bet. This could include free rooms, buffets, massages, match/free plays, etc. Comps beyond that, in my experience, have been the managers discretion. If you are a familiar face, you'll be more likely to swindle the pit boss out of a room for a night, or a free buffet just by asking.

[Three]

When I'm "home" ;the closest casino is about 25 dollars in gas money to go play ...I've heard people give advise that with a small spread its not worth it . but with my small spread I'm about 8-10 dollars and hour depending on pen.

At $25 travel expenses and $8/hr you make -$0.33/hr in a 3 hour session. If you get lucky and get great pen and actually hit that $10/hr win rate that spikes to $1.67/hr. You asked if it is worth it. Well I think the answer is an obvious no. I would play when work takes me close to a casino or anything else takes me close to a casino. Then travel expenses is paid for by whatever is taking you there regardless of whether you go to the casino or not. Another option is to get a players card and wait for the show up incentives to have a high enough EV to cover travel expenses. Others are play with an unacceptably high RoR to make the EV worth it or don't play and save a an adequate BR to all you to play at a higher EV. You could also do things to increase your EV. Like backcounting, shuffle tracking if the game is a trackable hand shuffle (which might make you need to switch to an easier count), learning more indices or going with some side counts or other things that increase EV and lower RoR. Anything that lowers RoR can be used to gain EV if you use an optimal ramp to the original RoR. If you have a replenish able BR you can look into replenish able BR theory which allows you to play like you have a higher BR. Of course timing visits to catch predictably uncrowded conditions will also help. You can probably put together a combination of these to get the best bang for your buck.

Remember increases from more advanced techniques are only there if you are proficient and accurate at their usage.

[mushin]

I have been told that the game I have to play for a regular game is not worth it and that to beat the game I would have to use a much bigger spread than I am. However, since playing is both a hobby and form of entertainment I first stated out not caring that the game I played was not "beatable." However I am on the plus side of the curve for the years playing 3 to 4 times a week. So while your game is probably not worth it on paper it really comes down to whether you think that playing more often will allow you to catch enough positive swings (Gamble) to reach a point where you have enough of a bank to feel comfortable betting more.

[Dieter]

When you get a player card you will be automatically mailed coupons based on your play.

Don't just play blackjack when you're getting your card. Sign up, and play one day, at somewhat larger than usual (about 20% more play).

If you can, also run some machine play - many places value machine players more than table games players. Video Poker can help significantly, and if you find a decent paytable and know the strategy, has a low edge.

[Nikky_Flash]

So far , I've only driven to play , like 6 or 7 times , when I needed to just get out of the house , (I'm not a bar /alcohol drinking person) and luckily I've won just about each time except once or twice and it wasn't huge loses ... But I knew that I had to play more than 4 hours each time and i table hopped and wonged aggressively...i never played a count past tc -3 or 4 but even though I just got lucky and slowly made a little profit , still I knew that this wasn't a good enough, real plan to be a serious money maker... So I haven't done it in almost a year and I've just waited for my job to send me...maybe I'll quit while I'm ahead and only play when work brings me there... Thanks for all the great answers everyone , you guys are excellent !

[ZenMaster_Flash]

A break even proposition is NOT good.

Obviously if your net results is as
you have said, then playing for profit
is NOT feasible at your local store.

You have also made a crucial error,
that of not including "depreciation"
on your car.

I forget what that figure (per mile) is.
BUT someone will update this post !

[stopgambling]

There are too many factors that will make it not worth it such as mistakes in deck estimation ,pen estimation,counting error ,number of hours that one can play,expenses, (depreciation of my vehicle! !) ,etc... I would play a profitable game that makes it worthwhile for my time and effort(not much with level 1 count) after factoring all of the above. I wong aggressively to overcome the average effectiveness of my system.