Splitting Aces

[clubtom]

A long long time ago I was playing green chips in a strip casino. The guy aside of me is playing $2000 a hand and gets a pair of aces. He splits the aces and gets another ace. The dealer is showing a 6 with a pretty high plus count and player says he is out of money. So I tell him I will play the third ace for him and put down my $2000. So I get a 6 and he gets a 10 on one hand and a 8 on the other. The dealer turns over his card to show a 10 than hits it with a 3 for a 19. The pit boss marks down my bet. The next three months I get enough free play in the mail to break even on my 2 grand. Would I do it again? In a heart beat. As they says in poker , that's a bad beat but it will happens.

Clubtom

[Freightman]

A long long time ago I was playing green chips in a strip casino. The guy aside of me is playing $2000 a hand and gets a pair of aces. He splits the aces and gets another ace. The dealer is showing a 6 with a pretty high plus count and player says he is out of money. So I tell him I will play the third ace for him and put down my $2000. So I get a 6 and he gets a 10 on one hand and a 8 on the other. The dealer turns over his card to show a 10 than hits it with a 3 for a 19. The pit boss marks down my bet. The next three months I get enough free play in the mail to break even on my 2 grand. Would I do it again? In a heart beat. As they says in poker , that's a bad beat but it will happens.

Clubtom

2 comments
-hopefully, the ground rules were clearly set. Scavenging on splits without defining parameters is a good way to get into arguments.
- providing point 1 was clarified, you did exactly the right thing, simply getting unlucky. Scavenging is an art form in itself, and can be very rewarding.

[Fireman]

It sounds like you made the right play. One other factor, scavenging can bring some extra heat.

[Freightman]

It sounds like you made the right play. One other factor, scavenging can bring some extra heat.

It can bring more heat, which makes it an art form to defer heat.

[Cougfan]

In addition to the other comments, it sounds like you were betting significantly less than the $2,000 needed for this split (I'm inferring this from your comment on increased free play). If that was the case, then this could have been a tougher decision, although your Kelly bet would have been extremely high here (starting with an Ace vs a dealer 6, albeit with no ability to hit / double), so you likely still made the right call.

[Cougfan]

Also, this is different than most scavenger plays since this is a real "win-win" that benefits both players (I believe). I am assuming here that hitting one card to an Ace is better than the ability to hit a soft 12 multiple times. That may well not be the case.

[Masterhoudini]

How is this a bad beat, I don't quite follow? Is 2k a lot for a green chipper? Also how did you determine your mail was from this play? Finally, I don't get how the play went from +EV to break even.

[DSchles]

"How is this a bad beat, I don't quite follow? Is 2k a lot for a green chipper?"

Don't be elitist. Starting with an ace vs. a dealer's six, you're a very big favorite to win the hand. You're an even bigger favorite once the dealer has 16. To me, yes, the $4,000 swing is a bad beat for a green chipper.

"Finally, I don't get how the play went from +EV to break even."

He didn't say that. What he wrote implies that, after losing $2,000, he received enough in subsequent comps that he attributed to that play to recoup the full value of the $2,000 loss. Or so it seems to me.

Don

[DSchles]

"I am assuming here that hitting one card to an Ace is better than the ability to hit a soft 12 multiple times. That may well not be the case."

Not even close. Much more valuable to hit the ace once.

Don

[Masterhoudini]

I respectfully disagree with you Don. I wasn't being elitist, just stating a fact. It was a high count 2/3 aces won, his didn't, so technically the hand actually won, how is that a bad beat?

For sure the play was +EV, I just don't get how it's a bad beat, like something completely atrocious- multiple max bets splits and doubles at like true count 20 would in my opinion be a bad beat, NOT a hand that actually won money.

Good for the OP for getting back enough in free play- but the fact is he prob would have gotten it anyways regardless of whether the hand won, so how did he determine it was because of the hand?

[DSchles]

"It was a high count 2/3 aces won, his didn't, so technically the hand actually won, how is that a bad beat?"

When the whole table wins and you lose, do you feel wonderful for everybody, or do you not give a shit about the others and wish that you had won and the other six had lost? He wasn't a $2,000 bettor, and he stepped up to make the play. He doesn't give a damn about the two hands to his left; he cares about what happens to him and the $4,000 swing he had with his "bad beat," where only 4 cards out of 13 could have beaten him, after the dealer flipped a six.

No problem. Happy to agree to disagree. Always respect your opinion.

Don

[20 to 1 Spread]

If you're not playing those stakes; sounds like $2000 is awfully a lot considering your colors. What if - the guy takes your $4000 win. Refuses to give it to you. Comes up with some bs. Last time I checked - they have to touch the chips - indicating it's theirs.

How do we go about this. Or do we just take it up the arse? Complain but nothing besides the threat of kicking the guy out. (No chance of reclaiming the money)

[Masterhoudini]

Thanks Don, much respect for you as well, but as the resident syntax grammar policeman is it really a "bad beat?"

I'm making the assumption that if the OP is a green chipper, their top bet is at least $200-300, if not more. Therefore, $2000 really isn't more than 6-8 max bets if not less. Perhaps it's a moot point, but I just feel like it's not a bad beat is all in terms of the dollar amount relative to OPs betting level and his the hand went down.