2x25 to 2x100 down to 1x25 and 1x10 is a lot trickier to catch. As is 2x20 to 2x90 to 2x10 tob1x10Originally Posted by ZenMaster_Flash
I have no idea how you could get down enough action to win 100k a year on vegas double decks. Most of the time no one is betting over 50 a hand in these joints. The strip on the other hand, plenty of big action but almost no tolerance for unrated play. And the shoe games at locals joints usually have bad rules, pen might be good I haven't played much around here.
With that said if you want to drive all over the west coast you could find enough games. Some of the Indian joints have really good pen.
In the end Vegas can still be great if you are willing to diversify. Play some machines, bet a little sports. Cost of living is low no state tax and direct flights everywhere. Just don't come for bj.
It's very common to have red chip play ignored. I'd say stick with a max of 2x95, but the principle remains. Years ago, I logged hundreds of hours playing red-chip pitch games with large spreads and rarely got busted. 5-75 all day long.
EDIT: You're talking Vegas. I agree, they don't like big spreads.
The Cash Cow.
The title of this thread is "Can you make 10K a month in VEGAS", so yeah Mooman, the discussion is concerning Vegas! Also about your comment: "Years ago, I logged hundreds of hours playing red-chip pitch games with large spreads and rarely got busted. 5-75 all day long." Years ago? Let me be the first to welcome you to 2015, Moo. What you did "years ago" matters NOT.
In 2015, in Vegas, DD games are mostly 'traps'. You just can't sit and spread, even at low limits and you can't spread and play unrated without being hounded so much that you have drawn 100x the attention of playing rated.
I mean the OP asked a legitimate and specific question concerning play in Vegas relating to a specific goal and some of the answers he has received, will give him a zero chance of achieving that goal. It's not that they are bad answers, so much as 'old' answers. Some of these answers seem like they are talking about play 10-15 years ago (or better). They are NOT representative of 2015 Vegas.
Oh and one other thing. Spreading to $95, does more harm than good. You aren't 'tricking' the pit or EITS. They will view it the same as the $100 level you are trying to avoid. Dealer is liable to call checks play. All it really does is slow down the game with odd payouts and often spreading of bet before payouts, which costs money.
Last edited by KJ; 08-14-2015 at 04:57 PM.
As one of the most respected, current players has posted here, this is possible with innovative play. You have a style of play. It works very well for you. Great. Other APs have different styles of play that work in different circumstances. I know a player that everyone knows is an AP and, despite numerous backoffs, was not perm-barred from Caesar’s for decades. The point of this site is to allow people to speak to their methods and their experiences. And, get feedback. Not attacks because it’s different from what you do.
Look, serious AP is tough. No one should ever suggest it is simple. BUT, different players make good profits with very different methodologies. I know APs that play in methods that have never been mentioned here, and would be considered stupid – except that they have found clever opportunities.
AP can be a grind. APs requires discipline to stick to their game plan. I understand that such may feel that their methodology is “the way”. It’s a part of discipline. But, this site is not about “one way”. If someone pushes a progression system, they should be shoved into the disadvantage forum and told why they are wrong. But, suggesting different valid, methodologies must be treated with respect. Doesn’t mean that you can’t criticize the flaws. But, attempts to chase people off the site, or ridicule people looking for new opportunities in a toughening environment makes no sense to me.
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
Let me clarify. I didn't mean to touch a hot button (re: the "KJ spat"). I'm not trying to take sides. I just wanted to encourage a very competent poster to continue adding his perspective. I appreciate all of the posters on this site. I've found them all to be good-hearted and constructive (in their own ways). Most of all I appreciate Norm's attentive and gracious management...
Norman, I am not trying to push “my way” on to anyone. As a matter of fact, that is the last thing I want to do. In absolutely no way does that benefit me.
I play 80 thousand rounds of blackjack per year and most of that is right here in Vegas, so I am pretty familiar with Las Vegas. I wish double deck play here were different, believe me I do, with all my heart. When I moved here, I had visions of good double deck play. But the fact is that in 2015, double deck play is all but a counter trap.
If you live here and play regularly, you can gets some DD play in, via very short bursts. But it cannot be the majority of your play or you will lose all games, including shoe games, within a couple months. If you only visit a couple times a year, sure you can get some play in for a few days at a time. But, you just can't play 30 hours a week of double deck blackjack and last very long in this town in this day and age. And you are not going to be able to get in enough play at low limits to make $120K a year, even if you ARE bigplayer and the OP is not bigplayer.
I also have a member of my household, in his first year of counting that is currently playing lower limits (up to $100 max), so I know that playing lower limits does not allow you to get in more DD play. DD here (Vegas) is sweaty at all limits, unfortunately.
There is nobody that respects and appreciates bigplayer more than I. I have sort of made him my 'unofficial' mentor. I have pages of bigplayer quotes, that I go to regularly. Saying that I disagree with his advice or opinion in this matter is in no way meant as disrespecting him.
Let's try to look at this from a soft business perspective. I agree with you that KJ is, overall, a valuable poster, however, he has numerous temper tantrums of late, has professed his total displeasure with the site, most if it over some perceived transgression, has publically quit the site more than once, yet lurks and continues to participate vociferously only on issues of interest to him. He has apparently demonstrated a non stop hardon (no pun intended) for Norm, and from the evidence, has apparently bashed the site elsewhere. I'd like to see him make a decision one way or the other and stick by it.
Now, if I were to look at this issue from a tougher perspective, I'd fire his ass out the door.
KJ is the local LV resident expert. On my limited LV play, I have to agree with him that constant DD play, regardless.of stakes, is dangerous. One of my 4 LV back offs wears at DD, and frankly, I deserved it. I recently found an unusual DD situation there which was crushed with low spread. Trust me when I say I was hawked hand in hand out.
Freightman, this is the kind of post designed to create and continue tensions and keep “spats” going. Frankly, you have a history of that.
Again, stop telling me what I can and can't read. If I want to read the site, I will. And until Norm tells me that I am not welcome, I will participate when and where I want. I don't have to answer to YOU.
I do have some issues with the site and some of the decisions Norm has made, so I have decided to limit my participation to very few occasions, when I believe my particular experiences can aid and help a member in a very specific manner, such as this thread.
Last edited by KJ; 08-14-2015 at 06:23 PM.
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