Thinking back to play as a beginner and assuming that you started red chipping and played at a local place. How long did it take and at what point did you get the heat and then a tap? Or if you have not reached that point yet how long have you been going without difficulty?
As I am sure we all know, plenty of variables come into play, but I think I am one of the fortunate players who started red chipping and built several rolls (I actually blew up 2.5 rolls built from my local and destroyed it at LV that were around $10K each). At my local joint, which I've been playing for around 2 years (1.5 years very basic CC at 70% efficiency * did not know to hit A7 vs 9 or 10) and (.5 years seriously crushing the game at probably 95%+ efficiency - I don't know what I don't know, so I'll give benefit to the doubt I'm not playing near perfect).
of my 2 years, I've only experienced massive heat at my local, where one pit boss lady who never seen me gathered the floor to look at my spread, which I was going 2 x $25 to 2 x $500 without ramps. True to the count. That was my worst experience at my local. Yesterday session was probably my 2nd most heat, but I created that myself by trying to bet 3 non-adjacent circles at table max (tc-11).
Probably pulled around $35-40K+ lifetime from there. I rat hole hard. This month I've rat $5800 (assuming they didn't allocate them to me).
Did get banned at reno though on the DD peppermill within a few hours of play. I cashed out like $1K profits within my first 1.5 hours went to eat and went back to the same freaking TABLE????? Then within 15-30 mins, they pushed back my bet when I ramped....
Originally Posted by mushin
I really don't recall the order of backoff said, so I'll just invent a scenario. In my red chip days, I only got the tap a few times, but not for counting. One was for complaining about the crappy buffet service. I was barred for a year. (That's the way they do it in my neck if the woods). Red chip conditions in those days were actually really good, and there is no question that those game conditions helped to build my bankroll. Right or wrong, even though my bankroll easily justified min green stakes, I stayed red chip as it kept me off the radar. As red chip conditions started to deteriorate, I then moved up to the better green chip conditions that were available. An unusual trait of my locale is that stores don't like to back off for counting, generally preferring some other excuse. My second local backoff was after I queried the pit as to why they were taking advantage of s mentally handicapped individual.the ban was for 2 years, My third local backoff, at the same store, was after a series of successful index plays in some crappy count. I was known as a counter and someone who knew what they were doing. My ban was for 10 years. The games manager didn't know the reason, except to say she was told that my action wasn't welcome. I was allowed into all other areas of the facility. My fourth backoff was finally at green chip level, and it was the first where it was clearly counting. I made sure to stay under threshold wins per session, unfortunately for me, I went on this insane winning streak, winning at that time, a large amount of money opver a compressed 6 week time frame. I told the games manager - funny - you never seemed to mind when I lost - to which there was no reply. That ban was 20 years. My fifth ban, where I had been countermeasured in my red chip days, came after a 1 year hiatus, returning at green chip levels, and extracted a mid 5 figure win over an approx 8 month period. As I recall, I had lost about 8k in the prior 2 months winning back most of it in the first 3 days of a new month. The upper level lady, whom I had never seen before, and ultra good looking and polite, simply said - Freightman, we've had your play under review for some time (no kidding) and your game etc etc. a pit critter simply followed up by do saying we can't allow any one to okay where we have a negative expectation. I'm allowed to play anything there except blackjack. My 6 th local backoff was a cumulative issue, close to 6 figures, which included a bad dip about 6 months prior, to which I had mostly recovered. I think I made some humor posts earlier where I stated that I was fired for farting. My 7th local backoff, just recently, was this absolutely insane winning streak - they made mention of the 15 session win, averaging 1500, 1 loss of about 1700, and a further 3 wins of about 6500. This was in a compressed time frame I'm allowed to play anything else. Anyone have any Mrs. Doubtfire costumes?
I'm heavily countermeasured at a store 130 miles away, and would likely get backed off on next visit - same story 60 miles in a different direction.
I've been backed off 4 times in Vegas, twice rated, twice not, but gave varying degrees of heat in numerous places. Surprisingly, I was staying at Strat and played a polite 10-80 and was booted off table games. I've never received an actual 86 trespass notice.
Travel to play is on my agenda now, which I simply have to fit in. I could be considered as semi retired in my normal business life at this point in time.
I should point out the only rude backoff, was surprisingly, local, which was my first one. My wife cashed out my rat holed chips from my last one.
Last edited by Freightman; 08-08-2015 at 03:39 PM.
How much time between your first and last back off? Have you averaged a BO a year or more? It may make a difference because I play in Missouri mostly and because my spread at DD is 1-6 at most. I don't use cover and often play lockstep with count. My two back offs were on a trip to LV where NYNY told me I was not welcome to play there after I was on my way to cash chips and another at Gold Strike in LV.
Got zero heat or attention at all the southern casinos on their dealt to the bottom single deck games while playing $10 to $90. When I moved to spreading $25 to $200 on double deck I got my first tap in about three months. A friend of mine told me he got his first backoff in the early 1970's at the pre-Wynn Golden Nugget spreading $1 to $3 on single deck.
150 hours of red chipping before first backoff. It came a couple sessions after my biggest win playing rated on a big shoe heads up. I suspect they saw the optics of that big win on their screen rather than figured out from surveillance I was counting cards. Got another quick backoff trying to play rated and still can't use that player's card today. It's been 2-3 years since those backoffs without any heat.
At local joints I only got heat and eventually a BO at 1 place. One other local joint backed off for lifetime win but no heat. Just comps dwindling as they rated me skilled. The sweatshop took a decade or so and never got heat as a red chipper. After green chipping I adjusted to heat a few times without getting the back off after a few years green chipping but eventually got the tap. Most places just roll out the red carpet. Mind you I am an advanced count counter. What they see me do isn't what they expect from counters. Bets and plays don't correlate. Influential cards removed have different affects depending on the current deck composition.
Last edited by Three; 08-11-2015 at 05:49 AM.
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