1 hand low ROR vs 2 hand high ROR

[20 to 1 Spread]

40-1 spread at $10 to $400 at 3-4% ROR
15-1 spread at 2x $20 to $300 at 12% ROR

I just want to know if I should be going into the tables locking two spots or not. is the ROR worth the extra % in EV? Also if I'm getting more EV and my min to max bet spread is smaller, it will be a lot less heat than going from $10 to $400...Of course my ROR now has become 300% higher... Thoughts? Just play 1 and spread to two when I can or lock both? It'll be a lot better playing two spots (wong at neg tc 1 or 2) in the long run?

Note - my joint is always filled. So if I see a spot next to me open, its now or never.

[RS]

It's really up to you. Are you comfortable with a 12% ROR? I'd look at the standard deviation numbers for spread #1 and spread #2 and see what I'm comfortable with.

[20 to 1 Spread]

although according to cvcx my ev is obviously higher for 2 hands since my max bet is a higher amount; my short-term results in comparing my 1 hand to 2 hand is shockingly disappointing - I've had a thousand time better results for 1 hand (70% of play time) to 2 hand (30% of play time). While 2 hand is more profitable, is it worth the risk? I believe something coefficient variation is like that.

Ex 1: $90/hr at 10% ROR
Ex 2: $100/hr at 20% ROR

In this case, from a risk reward standpoint, EX 1 would be the better choice. Furthermore, from what I understand from reading the forum, 2x hands for the same value as 1 hand is a lot better, but if I'm forced to pay 2x the min bet each hand and play through negative TC-1; then the amount of money spent in negative spots increases, while my max bet is barely increased (20%). Also my spread goes from an amazing 40-1 to 15-1. Should I be having better results in the long run, perhaps my 30% of play is just too small a sample size and i'm dealing with nose. eventually 2 hands even in neg tc-1 will result in a higher WR, but with crazier swings in the meantime. thus my downs seem a lot bigger. thoughts?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Your $10 40-1 spread will get you the boot, all the sooner if you win.
The $20 spread is 15 to 1 and will also get you the boot, but it'll take awhile.

There is only a tangential dubious relationship between ROR and SCORE.
That is because the notion of RISK is SUBJECTIVE while SCORE is objective.

[20 to 1 Spread]

Your $10 40-1 spread will get you the boot, all the sooner if you win.
The $20 spread is 15 to 1 and will also get you the boot, but it'll take awhile.

I'm playing 8 deck 87.5% pen and from what I've read, a 10-12 spread is break even on 8 deck shoe games (but my pen is pretty solid). With that being said, 15-1 spread seems barely pass the "advantage" threshold despite CVCX telling me of a decent EV. Also I am going into it with 2x hands as well. I still have to worry with such a spread?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

It would be helpful tho know the rules for the game you are referencing.

Basically, casinos tend to set their "Choke Point" for spreads at 8-1.

As I have often said, "There is no heat, until there is"

The higher the stakes, the lower tolerance becomes, as logic dictates.

I also suggest making your $20 bets into $25, for several reasons that

Should be obvious.

[20 to 1 Spread]

7-7.5 deck pen / 8 deck shoe, DA2, DAS, No Surrender, Resplit Aces 4x, Insurance

Is it better that I green as my min bet to be classified as a green chipper so my win threshold is increased? I honestly don't know why. Does it look suspicious and too stingy that I 2x $20 instead of the normal casual players who always do 2x (so I'm sticking out)? I think over the long course, esp at my local casino, increasing it even by $10 have some degree of effect in the long run as I do play through neg TC-1 at times where I feel I should not wong out.

[Masterhoudini]

The fact is they've tolerated your spread so far already, why change anything? What will inevitably get you at semi tolerant and tolerant places is cumulative win- they don't care if you count or what kind of voodoo system you use as long as you are not a huge winner or are a loser. Places that take action don't give a rats ass about low black action until your cumulative win is 20k+ . You are better off ratholing and making it look like you are a loser or win less than you do. Contrary to other posters on here- I have been successful at ratholing black even at seemingly very sharp joints- you have to do it at the right times. I recall specifically one instance I actually won 4k in a session and the pit actually had me as a net loss of 1k cause I ratholed and basically blamed the ploppies next to me- I knew this cause the host reviewed my play with me. I always make a scene when someone else ratholes chips- for example one ploppy was giving blacks to a friend each time he won and Id be like mannnn don't forget all those chips your buddy has.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

As promised, I am avoiding harsh language, but Masterhoudini ought not give strikingly dubious advice i.e.:

• Using a "chokepoint" like 20K, when that is double the most typical figure.
• Suggesting that ratholing black is not only possible, but a good strategy.

[RS]

You don't want to have a 3 color spread. So min bet green.

[Adrianno]

The fact is they've tolerated your spread so far already, why change anything? What will inevitably get you at semi tolerant and tolerant places is cumulative win- they don't care if you count or what kind of voodoo system you use as long as you are not a huge winner or are a loser. Places that take action don't give a rats ass about low black action until your cumulative win is 20k+ . You are better off ratholing and making it look like you are a loser or win less than you do. Contrary to other posters on here- I have been successful at ratholing black even at seemingly very sharp joints- you have to do it at the right times. I recall specifically one instance I actually won 4k in a session and the pit actually had me as a net loss of 1k cause I ratholed and basically blamed the ploppies next to me- I knew this cause the host reviewed my play with me. I always make a scene when someone else ratholes chips- for example one ploppy was giving blacks to a friend each time he won and Id be like mannnn don't forget all those chips your buddy has.

Someone is making this board virtually worthless. We need a Bullshit Shit Meter.

Quite frankly I'm offended by this.....

As promised, I am avoiding harsh language, but Masterhoudini ought not give strikingly dubious advice i.e.:

• Using a "chokepoint" like 20K, when that is double the most typical figure.
• Suggesting that ratholing black is not only possible, but a good strategy.

Hey guys, I saw MasterHoudini in BLACK actions a few times. He/She is the real McCoy of BJ.

Please show some respect & appreciations to MasterHoudini. Otherwise he/she's going to abandon here... and will post on Wong's site along with Bjarg, CoolJay, 21forme, etc...

[Masterhoudini]

Thanks Adrianno. ZM, I can appreciate your wisdom and the experience you've garnered along the way and have respect for you- I am actually in contact with a few of your students and they have said good things. However, I would appreciate if you didn't just write me off and discredit my posts. I speak from current 2015 blackjack experience at the table and stack 250k+ EV every year as a solo player, my students ALSO stack these same numbers in 2015 as well, so obviously I am doing SOMETHING right.

As I mentioned, you can rathole black- but SELECTIVELY is key. Obviously you need to actually have another person or several persons at your table playing green/black or colouring up to black to make this effective, otherwise it is useless. I don't need to lie about my experiences, I know for a fact I have successfully rat holed black many times and "blamed" the ratholing on others. You must find the correct individual to "blame," and it is often easy to do so. Also 20k is my experience at semi tolerant/ tolerant stores, I picked this number cause it IS around that for many of the medium size to larger casinos- they see big action all the time. In fact, I would consider this to be even a lower end number as I have been able to take 30-50k+ from tolerant places before 86.

[ap12b]

As promised, I am avoiding harsh language, but Masterhoudini ought not give strikingly dubious advice i.e.:

• Using a "chokepoint" like 20K, when that is double the most typical figure.
• Suggesting that ratholing black is not only possible, but a good strategy.

In fact, I can confirm you that Master houdini is mostly blasting purples and oranges. At some joints master houdini will intentionally blast blacks only so that the dealer doesn't call purple /orange action. Therefore MH occasionally will rathole blacks only at those joints. MH is a very good CC and very knowledgeable. Please show some respect and take the good advice.