You Be the Casino

[WABJ11]

So I'm playing at a store the other day which is a 6 deck game. The shuffle machine continues to show red light and they continue hand shuffle. By the third red light, the floor comes over and starts counting the cards, and realizes there is a card missing... lo and behold the missing card is in the 6 decks we have been playing with the last 3 shoes. What do you do, if anything, to compensate the player?

[Stealth]

If the missing card was a five or six then you should pay the casino a commission. If it was an Ace or face then they should rebate! NOT!

Do you know what was missing?

In reality, it is an interesting situation....what did they do?

[ellenc]

6d missing one card is 1/312=0.003, the effect positively or negatively is minimum. Similarly in DD, 1/104=0.01. SD, 1/52=0.02.

[NotEnoughHeat]

6d missing one card is 1/312=0.003, the effect positively or negatively is minimum. Similarly in DD, 1/104=0.01. SD, 1/52=0.02.

Of course the effect of a missing card depends on how many decks are in play, but the card itself does matter.

I don't think stating the percentage of the deck that was absent says much at all.

I would prefer looking at the the average EOR for taking that card out, but I would imagine that it would change depending on penetration.

[WABJ11]

It was the most interesting scenario I have ever seen in my playing days. The card was the 7h. A 7h made a dealer 21 on a stiff 14, and I had a $3500 bet out so I was kind of pissed. They decided, since there was no way to know when everything started, and what I had at the beginning of the shoe, and what I was down when, they just refunded me $3500 for that hand. I thought that was MORE than fair.

[MJGolf]

It was the most interesting scenario I have ever seen in my playing days. The card was the 7h. A 7h made a dealer 21 on a stiff 14, and I had a $3500 bet out so I was kind of pissed. They decided, since there was no way to know when everything started, and what I had at the beginning of the shoe, and what I was down when, they just refunded me $3500 for that hand. I thought that was MORE than fair.

That was a VERY generous pit decision IN your favor. Your +EV for a long while now!!!!

[mushin]

To build on this... my question is... What would gaming control do about something like this? What would the protocol be?

[LVBear584]

To build on this... my question is... What would gaming control do about something like this? What would the protocol be?

As one who has filed quite a few Gaming disputes, I can tell you that it is the luck of the draw, almost entirely dependent on which agent responds to your complaint. Most are very pro-casino, but there are some with ethics and integrity. It would be almost impossible to determine in advance which way they might rule, and what might happen during the appeal of an original field ruling.

[Stealth]

It was the most interesting scenario I have ever seen in my playing days. The card was the 7h. A 7h made a dealer 21 on a stiff 14, and I had a $3500 bet out so I was kind of pissed. They decided, since there was no way to know when everything started, and what I had at the beginning of the shoe, and what I was down when, they just refunded me $3500 for that hand. I thought that was MORE than fair.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

Thanks for the clarification.

After thinking about this, I suspect they wanted nothing to do with the Gaming Commission about this issue and, having found the problem, they could have known their "hold" during that period and decided your $3500 was a bargain to prevent a possible escalation. I suspect many other affected players were already gone..?

I do NOT believe it was out of their desire to be nice. There was some reason.

At any case, nice EV!

[Three]

To build on this... my question is... What would gaming control do about something like this? What would the protocol be?

The casino really screwed up dealing shoes that triggered a red light. All evidence said something was wrong with the deck and they dealt it anyway. I wouldn't expect gaming to get you a dime but the casino could face 6 figure fines per shoe dealt. They had a big incentive to make sure that you felt like you got a great deal. They were buying your silence. If a player flagged the casino's error to Gaming Enforcement they had a lot at risk. They are still in violation even after giving you such a sweet deal.

[WABJ11]

This was a tribal joint...

[Dieter]

The casino really screwed up dealing shoes that triggered a red light.

Except, the cards that triggered a red light were in the shuffler. There was no explicit indication that the cards not in the shuffler had a fault.

(Yes, I understand what should have happened.)

[WABJ11]

The fact that it was a tribal casino made me that much more surprised.