How NOT to act when 86'd

[ZenMaster_Flash]

MUST viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwPUm-Xv1rY

This moron is taking a video of himself cashing out

and arguing with security !

Security was low-key and perfectly polite and businesslike.

I was the first patron at the door when this casino opened.

I played there for years, in rural Northern New York.

On the Canadian border, it is a beautiful drive - -

through the 6,000,000 acre Adirondack State Park.

This is the place where the Indians had run an "illegal" poker room and

casino for years and there was a shootout with the State Police back in 1985.

The game deteriorated years ago when their shoes went 6 decks H17, bad pen',

and their DD went to S17 NDAS one hand only and they started to sweat everyone.

[zbest1966]

Whats the procedure; leave, sign the papers, call your lawyer?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Whats the procedure; leave, sign the papers, call your lawyer?"

1. You stay silent, other than to say that you are leaving the premises (after cashing out)
2. You show no identification, unless the demand is made by actual police officers.
3. You do NOT sign anything. You answer NO questions.
4. Call your lawyer ? Why ? What for ?
5. You have no legal recourse of any kind;
6. even if this wasn't a Native American enterprise.

[RS]

7. If they do something illegal to you, protect yourself, ie: Don't fight back or give them a reason to jump on you.
7b. Call your lawyer.



Not sure why this guy is arguing with security. It's not like he can pursuaded to let the guy continue to play.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

RollingStoned,

Do you not understand that once you are on "sovereign land" you have no rights ?

In 1979, the Supreme Court upheld that there are NO constitutional rights while

on Native American Indian Reservations.

on a perfectly practical level you must understand that local, state and federal laws are not applicable.

IF you choose to gamble at a Native American enterprise, as I term them, you have been forewarned !

[Marlene]

Why play at a sweat shop known to ban AP's especially, as Flash accurately calls it, an NAE?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Marlene,

You need to define "NAE"

The dummy is obviously a dummy,

and this is at a remote area,

and he is probably a local.

[Frank Galvin]

Rather than let this lie, obviously, Marlene meant NAE = Native American Enterprise (as ZMF termed in his earlier post - #6).

[Jabberwocky]

Why play at a sweat shop known to ban AP's especially, as Flash accurately calls it, an NAE?

So far no backoffs at NAEs; several backoffs at local joints. Two were recent events.

[Stealth]

In 1979, the Supreme Court upheld that there are NO constitutional rights while

on Native American Indian Reservations.

While that is true, there seems to be some areas of question. I know of one attorney who is waiting for such a case to arise.

So, example, if I am at a Harrah's managed property owned by some tribe, do I have a cause of action against Harrah's company (not an Indian company)? Unfortunately, all the money is usually on their side and the player does not want to risk the large funds to pursue.

There are, however, also civil proceedings that can be directed at individuals.

As with many things, it depends!

I should add that the player in the video may be a card counter but he is at best a novice as an AP. Previous advice of shut up (paraphrasing) and leave was very correct.

He admitted to being a card counter, then tried to apply his logic to security..........really? All he really did was give that event a chance to accelerate into a full blown disaster. Lucky, his security detail was tolerant and of even temper.

And by the way, there was nothing in there that was peculiar to Indian casinos.....that could have happened anywhere!

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Stealth,

" … if I am at a Harrah's managed property owned by some tribe, do I have a cause of action against Harrah's company (not an Indian company)? Unfortunately, all the money is usually on their side and the player does not want to risk the large funds to pursue. There are, however, also civil proceedings that can be directed at individuals."

Who manages the property is moot, to use the legal term.
If the person or business entity is on reservation property
the patron is left without resources. A State Civil Court has
Absolutely NO jurisdiction and cannot proceed with a civil suit.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

With the risk of repeating myself, I will revisit an old story.
I met a Card Counter while on a Junket flight to Nova Scotia,
who had been horrendously beaten and hospitalized by a
security guy at the 2nd biggest N.A.E. In the USA. The
ironic part of the story is that he was a business owner,
whose brother, an Attorney in the State Capital, had visited
him in the I.C.U., to inform him that he had NO case, either
criminal or civil.

[Marvin]

With the risk of repeating myself, I will revisit an old story.
I met a Card Counter while on a Junket flight to Nova Scotia,
who had been horrendously beaten and hospitalized by a
security guy at the 2nd biggest N.A.E. In the USA. The
ironic part of the story is that he was a business owner,
whose brother, an Attorney in the State Capital, had visited
him in the I.C.U., to inform him that he had NO case, either
criminal or civil.

Total long shot, but how about lobbying the state to shut down or severely limit state roads that go to reservations unless state citizens are given standing to sue in egregious situation? It would take about 5 minutes for the casino and tribe to cry uncle.
Heck, a clause like that should be included by states in the compact with tribes.

And, IANOL, just throwing this out there.