Think Flash players hi opt with a couple of side counts - aces and sevens. That combo, with indices, is as good as anything out there.Originally Posted by Tthree
THIS quote from this member.... is there really anything else that needs to be said?
But just to be clear, although I often advocate for simplicity and Hi-lo in particular, the real point is that it just doesn't matter. I submit the following two quotes for consideration:
From Richard Munchkins Blog “advice to new card counters”.
“3. Learn what is important, and what is not.
There are 3 things beginners obsess over that are not important. Which count to use, keeping side counts, and the rules.”
Bigplayer quote “What count you choose is one of the least important decisions that a card counter makes.”
The similarities of these two quotes, from these two players and members of this site and community are striking. It just doesn't matter all that much, in today's environment. It's chasing pennies.
With that having been said, a player should play whatever count they like, can play well and are comfortable with. I just don't like newer players being lead to believe that it makes a difference. And those mentoring and teaching new players that it does make a difference, as well as those continually posting that it does are doing newer members a disservice.
Last edited by KJ; 06-30-2015 at 07:14 PM.
The players that really benefit are the small BR players. Trouble is most aren't good enough to use a more complex count and by the time they are they either grew a real BR or busted out. But if you are that rare player that is both experienced and BR challenged you will benefit most from added complexity.
Well again, may not be of the genius clan, however if like to know why you got the idea I would give up? It's not in me. Why because I misunderstood or rather combined two ideas? Keep in mind, I only ever sat at a blackjack table two months ago before that, never had a clue other than the object of beating the dealer. Then I started reading about it. Only recently having someone, whom speaks very highly of you, teach me hi opt 2. My struggle was actually silly. It was when an index is for a negative count say -4 is it -4 or higher or -4 and lower. Something I read from another genius type on blackjackinfo.com said the indices always move up. Prior to this I had been spending all my time practicing counting down cards from a single deck to 6 decks at a time, and every basic strategy play for every set of rules. While I have no doubt this must've been like reading a Dr. Sues book to someone like you, two months ago I didn't even know BS existed.
While I have a huge admiration for your abilities, I can assure you you're not the only one with drive, capability, or devotion. Really shouldn't assume just because someone is new or asks questions that feel like common sense to you, I bet at one time they weren't common sense. I can also say that I have had a chance to review a small amount of they system it is well within my ability. I look forward to the book being released one of my greatest joys in life is proving the genius crowd wrong. That a 35 year old carpenter can perform the same miraculous, seemingly impossible mathematical equations. Not only that, but I think my ability to count one single card let alone 312 tops your ability. Especially because I'm blind and I use the feel if the ink in hand held games, or the sounds of the cards when the come out of the shoe or hit the felt due to the changes in weight as a means to count. So the fact that I've learned what I've learned and can do any system is pretty much impossible to most, wouldn't you think. Thanks for the supportive nature of your comments though. If you think that's amazing you should see me play craps!!!
That is just the math of it. The math is undeniable. The gains make a much larger difference to players with small BR's. I have proven it before by posting the numbers but you just want to be in denial. Anyone can check the math for themselves. When bumping up against an artificial lower boundary the gain from complexity is greatly magnified. When bumping up against an artificial upper boundary the gains from complexity are minimized. I try to understand all situations not just my situation.
The guy that mastered Tarzan Count quickly is no genius. He just had the abilities necessary to master performing the count quickly. Everyone was amazed but it happened. It just takes a certain mental skill set which is really basic memory gifts that don't require a genius to do it. If you don't have the ability you can develop it but that is the part that takes dedication. People with that drive usually accomplish whatever they set out to do. I make no assumptions about you.
I was just having fun. I know I'm not going to quit, and I also know you have no way of knowing that. I'm just getting started. I'm sure this game and worse this system has a high turn over rate. Its pretty straight forward. I'm taking it one step[ at a time. I needed to know what the ASC did to the TC and how, it was explained, and that's history. Moving on to practice it.
Does anyone have any suggestions on drills I can do? the more the merrier. As of now all I am doing is counting down a 6 deck shoe dealing out three or four hands, then one for a dealer. trying to be as casino like as possible. Every minute i stop and calculate both TC's. This could get boring and I like variety in my diet, any ideas, or any drills that have worked well for you or anyone else?
Just to add a little to this discussion. I've counted off and on throughout my life since I was 16 on reservation casinos in Minnesota, and then mostly Vegas. Lots of chaotic life passed by juggling college, different shifts at my job, girlfriends, wives, ladies of the night..etc. So there were times when my counting proficiency took a big nosedive due to not playing at all for long stretches. One thing that I've found is that if you don't have the luxury of living blackjack and practicing religiously is that being able to get back up to speed quickly after layoffs is golden.
I started using the Revere Point Count originally because of a recommendation by a blackjack dealer at a practice table at Treasure Island casino in Red Wing Minnesota. I played using the RPC off and on then during one of my layoffs I pretty much lost proficiency (mostly with deck estimation) and being able to true the count and compare it to the index quick enough to make a timely decision.
Then I switched to Hi-Lo, then Hi-Lo Lite during other stretches of counting inactivity thinking that would be my fix. I think a lot of players overestimate their proficiency in making all those calculations and decisions in a casino accurately and with complete confidence. And remember. Different manufacturers of cards have different thicknesses and after the same cards have been used for a while they fluff up changing the actual thickness of the complete pack. So if you really want to get the TC right then you need proficiency juggling that too.
At one point I thought maybe just being accurate to the nearest deck would be good enough to keep me in the true count game. But my CVCX sims showed that Red-7 (and maybe KO or REKO but I didn't sim them) have a better edge than Hi-Lo true counted to the nearest deck. You've got to use half deck increments to really get that extra edge from true counting.
It may make sense to use Hi-Lo with full deck estimation so you can shuffle track. But then again if the point is navigating the breaks in playing proficiency by using a simple strong count then I think unbalanced counts are the way to go. Plus you don't have to keep a bunch of decks available to practice eyeballing the remaining decks. Grab your deck of cards and regain a fast per deck count, memorize your tables again, and then go to the casino.
So the last time I got back into the game I decided to use Red-7. I like adjusting the IRC's and keeping the indices the same (except in advanced Red-7). And I really like that Red-7 is calibrated to tell you when you are "on the edge of the edge." So you don't miss the opportunity to raise your bet.
Obviously if it's truly easy for you to true count and even ace side count "accurately," then go ahead. But after all the changes I've tried I found Red-7 is best for me. And I have a lot more confidence in my game because I know I can play Red-7 more accurately than when I was true counting.
Last edited by alexost; 07-01-2015 at 06:56 AM.
Ah see, now I feel bad. I was really just being funny. My dad was a cop for 30 and a Marine, grew up tough. As a kid he used to send me in the other room and when i came back he would've moved something, and it was my job to tell him what. It would range from a picture being crooked on the wall, to a cigarette butt in his ashtray being a different direction. I developed a wicked memory young. Numbers has always been my thing. I started framing houses and the called me blueprint because I could remember the exact measurement from the wall layout days later when figuring the roof rafters. I didn't need to look at the print or pull my tape measure. It was already in my head. I could figure The rafters without the traditional stepping down method, or without the use of a calculator. I was young and 130 lbs when I started. Not at all cut out for the kind of work we did. I never quit, even getting made fun of for my size. I never got fired, because of my talent. I'm 35 and still swinging a hammer. Blackjack hopefully with be as easy, once i get the general concept. It was difficult at first because the terminology flashed used. I understood the words, but how they applied to the game was a different story. Like risk averse, and Expected value, or Effect of removal. All those things that i scratched my head over are now simple concepts. It took a bit to get through the learning curve but now its coming along rather well.
I also was afraid to bug him so I would try to read about it instead of just asking and sometime I read from a not so smart author and it created more problems then it corrected.
Again, I have heard crazy amazing things and have a huge respect for what you can do. Your knowledge along with anyone else is valuable to me.
I liked your post, but what you said here actually doesnt make sense.
Shuffle tracking and full deck estimation in the same sentence?
Not good.
If you are using hilo with full deck estimation then almost by definition you cant possibly be tracking.
Last edited by bjarg; 06-30-2015 at 08:27 PM.
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